Thread: Basic knots, Which should a trainee start with?

From talking with local utility arborists and tree workers I get the impression that most of the larger line-clearance companies still use the old tried and true single rope/taut line hitch rig rather than using a separate "split-tail" and a Blakes hitch. Am I correct?

If I am correct then wouldn't it make sense when training an entry level tree worker to teach and train with the taut line since he is most likely to start out with a line-clearance company? This of course would not preclude teaching the Blake's too but shouldn't the emphasis be on the taut line?

Opinions please.

Most utility climbers I see working these days are using a split tail. As a matter of fact, all of them that I have observed in the past 5 years has been using a split tail (even the ones I saw in Alabama last year).

As far as teaching, I teach as I was taught and what has worked best for me. I start every prospect climber on a traditional closed system, using an open prussic. I was never a fan of the tautline or Blake's. I do think it is important for a climber to learn how to descend on nothing but a rope, should the need arise for him to do so.

Arboriculture ain't the Fire Service, with 150 years of tradition unimpeded by progress!
I like and use Blakes hitch.
I'm happy to show anybody helping me everything I know, (all 5 minutes worth) but I do the climbing on a job. When my tired legs/body call it quits the equally tired equipment can get sold off or donated to a poor African village.

i think thay should be taught the blakes hitch myself ,really good one to start with

simple and fast

half hitch, clove hitch, rolling hitch, slip knot - for getting the line in the tree and a thousand other uses
bowline - for sending a running bowline up a pull line and a thousand other uses
figure-8 - generic loop and stopper knot
anchor hitch - for tying the rope(s) to the saddle
blakes hitch - for getting off the ground

When I started out I was made to learn 4 knots before I was allowed to get off the ground: open prussic, clove hitch, running bowline and butterfly knot.

All the answers above not withstanding I think I have learned through other sources that my premise is certianly correct. Trainees for entry level line clearance jobs (and this is where most climbers get their initial experience, at least in my neck of the woods) need to learn to tie and use the old closed system with a taut line hitch. This is the method that they will be REQUIRED to use by the large line clearance companies. (again at least in my neck of the woods)

According to Asplundh's top line clearance man in my state (talked to him by phone this morning) this is what his company as well as Davey and Burford use. According to him too Asplundh at least has no plans to use anything else in the near future.

Again this does not preclude a trainee from learning other knots and systems. Its just that if he plans to go to work for a line clearance company he better be prepared to use a closed system with a tautline and if you are going to teach new climbers only one system this better be it.

The fancy stuff , though it may be easier to work with and more efficient, can wait until a man gets more experience and goes into business for himself. Its not that other systems are not better in some ways its just that the larger companies are going to stick with the tried and true methods.

I reckon that climbing on 3-strand manilla rope is a tried and true method as well.

Originally Posted by Pelorus

I reckon that climbing on 3-strand manilla rope is a tried and true method as well.

It is at AssPlunder.

Only been on this forum two days but I already see what the moderator meant in his Playground Namecalling thread.

Originally Posted by O'Bruadair

Only been on this forum two days but I already see what the moderator meant in his Playground Namecalling thread.

Welcome to AS. There's a lot to be learned in this forum. It might not be presented in a way that you like or approve of but the combined knowledge of a lot of experienced people is available to you.

You asked a question, you got answers. This isn't Cub Scouts and sometimes things are a little rough. Stick around, learn something. If you get huffy and leave the only loss is to yourself.

But if you ask a question or ask for advice and then argue with the people who respond to you or talk down to them I doubt if you'll get much help.

Hey...I'll bet you've given this same lecture to some of your students.

I asked a serious question but I was the one who was "talked down to". I asked the question in order to better help some 18 and 19 year olds who think they want to get into the tree care business. In order to do that that they need to be taught the BASICS that their potential first employers are going to REQUIRE of them. (adding the fancy stuff is fine, but they first need those basic skills.) I think I made that clear. Instead of a straight answer though I got what all the "experts" are using.

yep, it ain't cub scouts but I took this to be a forum for professionals. I guess I was wrong.

Originally Posted by O'Bruadair

I asked a serious question but I was the one who was "talked down to". I asked the question in order to better help some 18 and 19 year olds who think they want to get into the tree care business. In order to do that that they need to be taught the BASICS that their potential first employers are going to REQUIRE of them. (adding the fancy stuff is fine, but they first need those basic skills.) I think I made that clear. Instead of a straight answer though I got what all the "experts" are using.

yep, it ain't cub scouts but I took this to be a forum for professionals. I guess I was wrong.

Those 18/19 year olds are going to find out what their new employers require them to use regardless of what anyone here thinks, says, or does.

Actually I don't think it's a requirement so much as it is what they want to pay for.

Originally Posted by O'Bruadair

yep, it ain't cub scouts but I took this to be a forum for professionals. I guess I was wrong.

Yep, time to move on.

Originally Posted by Carburetorless

Those 18/19 year olds are going to find out what their new employers require them to use regardless of what anyone here thinks, says, or does.

Actually I don't think it's a requirement so much as it is what they want to pay for.

yep, of course you are right (in 1st sentence). But the greenhand that has a few basic skills and knows what will be required of him before he goes to work will have a "leg up" and will advance at a faster rate too. That was the reason behind the original question. I never said no one learns on the job.

Second sentence: I assume you mean that the companies are not willing to go the expense of more advanced systems and you may be right. Point is though the greenhand has to conform to what the company wants and the company's procedures. The one thing the greenhand needs most is work experience. Established "experts" can afford to dis the corporations and call them names. That 18 year old with no work experience does not have that luxury. He can not afford to call the people who are giving him a chance stupid or cheap. He has to conform to what the company wants if he wants a job.