UNOFFICIAL 2-Stroke OIL Brand Specification/Standard Thread

**HEAVY FUEL** · 10-20-2011, 06:09 PM

Blue Marble

JASO FD

TC-W3

ISO EGD

**727sunset** · 10-21-2011, 08:37 AM

Thanks to OP for organizing the list.
Great topic and lots of products to choose from.
Here's a couple more

Dolmar
with fuel stabilizer
meets or exceeds
JASO FD
ISO EGD

Laser 100% Synthetic Premium
JASO FC
ISO-EGD
approved

**one.man.band** · 10-21-2011, 03:43 PM

found a new angle on the oil standards thread considering warranty issues. two manufactures were chosen with 2010 warranty requirements for the following saws. 2010 warranty listed information for both. hopefully more manufacturers to follow.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
example:
Echo CS-500P (2010 warranty 50cc pro model saw chosen @random):

to avoid voiding warranty:
must use ISO-L-EGD (ISO/CD 13738) and JASO M345-FC/FD standards.

also: 89 octane or higher with a maximum content of 10% ethanol or 15% MTBE.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

example:
Husqvarna 346XP (2010) - warranty language found in operations manual. for warranty coverage, must adhere to operations manual instructions.

as follows:

-Never use oil for a 4-stroke engine.
-Never use oil intended for water cooled outboard engines, so called outboard oil.
-For best results use Husqvarna 2-stroke oil which is especially developed for chain saws. Mix ratio 1:50 (2%).

also: 87 octane minimum. higher octane recommended for extended high rpm operation.

**cmarti** · 10-21-2011, 03:49 PM

Poulan Synthetic 2 cycle.

It is made by Spectrum Lubricants in Tenn, who make the Woodland Pro, Dolmar and Husky oils. It has the exact same MSDS sheet as the others. I will post up any test specs I can find.

http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/m...20Additive.pdf

**Bob Wright** · 10-21-2011, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by one.man.band

hoping to get a reply from the resident refinery gurus like Bob Wright or KiwiOilBoiler or others on this:

recycled oil:

have y'all ever dealt with recycled oil at the refinery?
what do you guys think of recycled oil?
could it be re-refined (or whatever step is necessary) to make a clean/quality product?

thx.

Yup we re ran recycled oil (nothing goes to waste there) just put it right into the slop line which mixes with the other blend tanks and feeds right into the mix. There is lots of waste oil generated in the refinery from the compressors and pumps (lots of them) We used crude from at least 20 countries on any given day. All of it had a number or fancy name and we swapped it around as needed for the daily mix. They pay someone to sit in front of a computer and figure out blends based on what crude was on hand. Some days we would run out of a certain crude so we would swap in another until the tank filled back up, that was pretty common...Bob

**one.man.band** · 10-22-2011, 04:49 AM

Originally Posted by Andyshine77

One man My MSDS for Ultra does list the CAS number,64742-54-7. A few years ago I looked it up and it outlined the oil as an ester oil. However I just looked up the number again and it wasn't listed. I did a little more digging and it seems someone didn't like everyone knowing what base oils they are using, hum I wonder why.

found a current msds for this oil here: www.stihllibrary.com/pdf/msds/stihl_hp_ultra.pdf

cas# listed: 64742-54-7 (hydrotreated heavy petroleum paraffinic distillate) --- same # that you previously found.

tried to find corresponding base oil group for this cas#.

result: it could be any group # (depending on how much it is refined).

closest explanation for this i could find: UBB Message - Bob Is The Oil Guy

cas#'s do not specifically correspond directly to a certain base oil group #.

i have no reason to doubt that stihl hp ultra is a synthetic.

cas# will not, with any certainly tell you much of anything.

that being said, did find that there is a cas# for recycled oil. thx bob for the reply.

sachsmo

Nothin' like the smell of Benol in the mornin'.

me too!

**stckciv** · 10-22-2011, 07:57 AM

RedMax Low Smoke, Max-Life Universal Oil

ISO-L-EGD, JASO-FD (M345)

**Andyshine77** · 10-22-2011, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by one.man.band

found a current msds for this oil here: www.stihllibrary.com/pdf/msds/stihl_hp_ultra.pdf

cas# listed: 64742-54-7 (hydrotreated heavy petroleum paraffinic distillate) --- same # that you previously found.

tried to find corresponding base oil group for this cas#.

result: it could be any group # (depending on how much it is refined).

closest explanation for this i could find: UBB Message - Bob Is The Oil Guy

cas#'s do not specifically correspond directly to a certain base oil group #.

i have no reason to doubt that stihl hp ultra is a synthetic.

cas# will not, with any certainly tell you much of anything.

that being said, did find that there is a cas# for recycled oil. thx bob for the reply.

sachsmo

Nothin' like the smell of Benol in the mornin'.

me too!

A year or so back the cas number would tell you exactly what the base oil was, it looks like they changed the amount of info the csa number provides. There's an older thread where I had a discussion with a fellow oil head about what type of base oil was used in Ultra, and at the time the cas # was very specific in stating that it's a highly refined Group V Ester oil. Something legally changed here, my guess is one of the oil companies didn't want the public to know what oils are being used. This normally mean one thing, one of the big oil companies started using substandard base oils. This is all purely speculation, but it's not the first time something like this has happened. Take all the standards like JASO. The oil industry jacked up the testing price in an attempt to knock the little guys out of the market, luckily it hasn't worked yet.

**Bob Wright** · 10-22-2011, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Andyshine77

one of the big oil companies started using substandard base oils. This is all purely speculation, but it's not the first time something like this has happened.

Yup seen it first hand...Bob

**one.man.band** · 10-23-2011, 06:53 AM

i'm getting deep enough in "base" oil groups to put the hip waders on.

group 1 base oils: world supply greatest. "dirtiest" of the groups.

group 2 base oils: better than group 1 in cleanliness. better crude. require more refining (if made from group 1's).

group 2+ base oils: see group 2, but of higher quality.

group 3 base oils: equal to, and/or better than groups 1 and 2 in cleanliness. better crude (read more $ costly). rarer to find naturally occuring. north america has only 6% group 3 supply, while majority of the orient has 46% group 3 supply. group 3's are refined into synthetic stock (group 4's and group 5's), most readily (read the least $ costly of the groups to manufacture). cheap synthetics are actually group 3 oils (not true synthetics).

i'm not going to get into groups 4 and 5......because they (almost all) are highly refined from group 3's into what we know are synthetics. very very good oil properties in these groups.

group 6 base stock: mother's milk. the ultimate stuff. not yet recognized in the U.S. by the API (american petroleum institute). introduced in europe by the ACEA (Association des Contructeurs Europeans d'Automobile). side note: european oil standards that are more stringent. these base oil stocks are made of PIO (polyinternalolefins). differing names for these base stocks are UCBO's (unconventional base oils) or NCBO's (nonconventional base oil's). these are the most severely hydroprocessed to make very high VI (viscosity index) stocks.

what does this all mean?

my take on this is: in order to polish a turd into gold, it takes finding a golden turd...... OR..... much money spent on refining the turd into gold. either way it is expensive because the supply of group 3 oil is minimal. i mentioned somewhere in this thread that the only way to obtain a true no BS synthetic oils (labeled synthetic) is from germany. everywhere else it means taking the manufacturer's word on it. everywhere else, the word: 'synthetic' could mean either a group 3 oil OR a group 4/5 oil which are actually a true synthetic. look up 'european motor oil' - the prices for these bmw, mercede's approved oils are astronomical.

to make this thread worthwhile for practical use, i think i have found a way to figure out what kind of 2 stroke oil quality we are buying by using VI (which is Viscosity Index). the better the base oil, the better VI it has. *this is by no means the tell all of finding the answer to what the base stock is, because there are many more factors involved.

taking this thread reply from Stihlman441:

Stihlman441

I use Mobil 1 Racing 2T fully synthetic oil at 40:1 with 95 to 98 octane ethonal free fuel.

Mobil 1 Racing 2T meets or exceeds the requirements of the following industry specifications:
API TC
ISO E-GC, E-GD
JASO FC, FD
TISI Meets
SAE Grade 1, Grade 2

Typical Properties
Mobil 1 Racing 2T
Viscosity (ASTM D445)
cSt @ 40 ºC 83
cSt @ 100 ºC 12.7
Viscosity Index 154
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 0.15
Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97) -42
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 100
Density @15.6 ºC g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.884

notice the VI above. *the best oil stocks have the highest VI. (*disclaimer in above paragraph). the VI is the oils ability to stay at the viscosity it was meant to. the highest grade base stocks such as used by the euro oils, are very thin (example: 0w-20). a group 1 oil is mainly used for thicker oils such as 20W-50, because it cannot handle the heat while being as thin as a group 4, 5, 6 can. what it means is that a group 1 oil has to be as thick as molasses to handle the same temp as a group 4, 5, 6.

be aware VI is not the only factor in choosing the finest blend of swill that is put into a bottle of 2 stroke oil. i found a pattern in what i have read about this topic from various sources, and believe it might help identify base oil groups a little easier.

references used for my reply:

http://www.zddplus.com/techbrief10%2...e%20stocks.pdf

http://core.theenergyexchange.co.uk/..._groen_eng.pdf

http://www.multisolgroup.com/chevron...-foreurope.pdf

leaning towards the smell castor beans more and more.

**joeclimbing** · 10-23-2011, 09:58 AM

[QUOTE=Andyshine77;3211622]Part 3.

9) What are the main differences between 2 and 4-stroke oil? Why does 2-stroke oil have to be mixed with fuel?

2-stroke oil has a very short working life, straight in and out, and it gets burnt. The 2-stroke engine doesn’t have a sump full of oil and the bearings are all rollers, so there’s hardly any oil drag, hence no need for multigrades. Long term stability is obviously not a problem!

* * *

It gets burn but how important is the flashpoint? I understand that a high flashpoint is desirable in high reving 2 cycle engine.

Excellent reading here; thanks..

**one.man.band** · 10-23-2011, 01:39 PM

"It gets burn but how important is the flashpoint? I understand that a high flashpoint is desirable in high reving 2 cycle engine." - joeclimbing

good catch! from the zddplus tech brief (link above somewhere) on page 5 chart: flashpoint temperature increases with base group #.

i was focusing on base group viscosity indexes..... and did not notice that. the base groups main focus is on the viscosity index, so that's what i was concerned with as well.

flashpoint however's main focus is not explained fully on that link. (the information listed is correct, but there is also more to the story). another main reason for listing the flashpoint temperature, is for firefighting and material shipping (cargo) concerns. this is required on the MSDS section III sheets. flashpoint is tested by holding an ignition source over the liquid. the ignition source could be either open flame or spark. << not certain which they use. defined as the coldest temp where the vapors from the liquid ignite.

with all the info about base stock group numbers on this thread, hip waders are a requirement. like 'Bob W.' says .....they distill and blend and use everything... to make whatever the final product is.

the viscosity and flashpoint are just two ways to help identify the base stock used.

keep in mind that: in a 2-stroke, the flashpoint is of the oil, is mixed with the flashpoint of gasoline.

also

the viscosity of the base oil is most likely not the same viscosity of the two stroke oil in the bottle, because it is blended with other stock(s) in almost every case.

then add in trade secret concoctions of additives and who knows!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
correction/addition

note: i left out base group 3+ by error above. also, base groups 1 and 2 could also be made into synths with more refining and greater effort.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

still learning i am.

**one.man.band** · 10-26-2011, 03:49 PM

Updated 10/27/11:

*****IF YOUR OIL IS NOT LISTED ON THE official jaso organization site LINK below,

it IS NOT APPROVED NO MATTER WHAT IT SAYS ON THE LABEL***

1. Added more oils from responses.
2. Added JASO M345 certification procedure. www.Jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/2T_EV0412.pdf
3. Added official JASO certified 2 stroke oil list. JASO Engine Oil Standards Implementation Panel
the list was current as of 10/01/11.

Originally Posted by one.man.band View Post
There are 3 different 2-stoke oil standard rating systems in use, (that i am aware of). Rating systems rate oil by passing certain tests. The 3 organizations which rate oils are as follows:

API - FC (one rating only)

or

ISO-L EGB (good); ISO-L EGC (better); ISO-L EGD (best)

or

JASO FB (good); JASO FC (better); JASO FD (best)

I cannot gather all the information by myself. If anyone is interested please feel free to contribute. Don't want to make it a comment thread.. but just facts. When thread has exhausted itself, i will summarize the replies on a single post. Goal is to separate hype and BS.

List your pre-mix oil brand of choice... and what Oil Standard Spec. it meets (if any). Also add if it has fuel stabilizer. All info is on oil bottle/jug label. If it's not listed on label, it means has not been tested for whatever reason.

Example: Echo-Powerblend (OLD) w/fuel stabilizer.
Meets: JASO FC (M345) and ISO L-EGB

Example: Craftsman #7136555 w/fuel stabilizer.
Meets: API-TC
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Updated 10/27/11 from responses. In alphabetical order:

THESE OILS NEED TO BE CROSS-REFERENCED FROM OFFICIAL SITE TO BE SURE THAT THEY ARE APPROVED.

(SOME .......MOST, ARE NOT!!!!)

Approved OILS will have a test number and seal on label.

Amsoil Saber Professional: API-TC; ISO-L-EGD; JASO FD

Bel-Ray (many synth ester and/or petroleum types). (everything they produce looks top notch ISO and JASO).

Blue Marble: TCW-3; ISO-L-EGD; JASO FD

Craftsman #7136555 w/fuel stabilizer. API-TC

Cenex Blend Two Cycle Oil: no stabilizer. Meets or exceeds API-TC; JASO FB; JASO FC

Dolmar: w/stabilizer. Meets or exceeds ISO-L-EGD; JASO FD

Echo-Powerblend (NEW) w/fuel stabilizer. Exceeds: ISO-L-EGD; JASO FD (M345)

Echo-Powerblend (OLD) w/fuel stabilizer. Meets: ISO-L-EGB; JASO FC (M345)

Fuchs/Silkolene: many synth ester and/or petroleum types. (thread response did not specify). (everything they produce looks top notch ISO and JASO).

Husqvarna LS Synthetic: ISO--L-EGD; JASO FD

Klotz Benol Racing Castor Oil: (from company website: No ratings found).

Klotz R-50 Racing Pure Synthetic: (from company website: No ratings found).

Klotz Super Techniplate (80% synth. 20% Castor) (from company website: No ratings found).

Laser 100% Synthetic Premium: ISO-L-EGD approved; JASO FC approved.

Maxima: many synth and/or petroleum types . (thread response did not specify). (everything they produce looks top notch ISO and JASO).

Mobil 1 Racing 2T Fully Synthetic: API-TC; ISO-L-EGC; ISO-L-EGD; JASO FC; JASO FD; TISI Meets SAE Grade1&2

Quaker State Conventional: No stabilizer. API-TC; JASO FA; JASO FB

Pennzoil: API-TC

Poulan Synthetic 2cycle: (specs coming)

Redline: synthetic ester base oils, many types. (thread response did not specify). (from company website: No ratings found).

Red Max Low Smoke, Max-Life Universal Oil: ISO-L-EGD; JASO FD (M345)

Stihl Conventional (orange bottle): W/stabilzer. No ratings noted.

Stihl HP Ultra Full Synthetic (silver bottle): W/stabilzer. API TC; API TC+; JASO FB

Tanaka Perfect Mix: ISO-L-EGD; JASO FC

Woodland Pro-Full Synthetic: W/stabilzer. ISO-L-EGD; JASO FC; JASO FD

**joeclimbing** · 10-26-2011, 09:20 PM

But.... Amsoil has come highly recommended as apparently it has a higher flashpoint..

Originally Posted by one.man.band

Updated 10/27/11:

*****IF YOUR OIL IS NOT LISTED ON THE official jaso organization site LINK below,

it IS NOT APPROVED NO MATTER WHAT IT SAYS ON THE LABEL***

1. Added more oils from responses.
2. Added JASO M345 certification procedure. www.Jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/2T_EV0412.pdf
3. Added official JASO certified 2 stroke oil list. JASO Engine Oil Standards Implementation Panel
the list was current as of 10/01/11.

Originally Posted by one.man.band View Post
There are 3 different 2-stoke oil standard rating systems in use, (that i am aware of). Rating systems rate oil by passing certain tests. The 3 organizations which rate oils are as follows:

API - FC (one rating only)

or

ISO-L EGB (good); ISO-L EGC (better); ISO-L EGD (best)

or

JASO FB (good); JASO FC (better); JASO FD (best)

I cannot gather all the information by myself. If anyone is interested please feel free to contribute. Don't want to make it a comment thread.. but just facts. When thread has exhausted itself, i will summarize the replies on a single post. Goal is to separate hype and BS.

List your pre-mix oil brand of choice... and what Oil Standard Spec. it meets (if any). Also add if it has fuel stabilizer. All info is on oil bottle/jug label. If it's not listed on label, it means has not been tested for whatever reason.

Example: Echo-Powerblend (OLD) w/fuel stabilizer.
Meets: JASO FC (M345) and ISO L-EGB

Example: Craftsman #7136555 w/fuel stabilizer.
Meets: API-TC
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Updated 10/27/11 from responses. In alphabetical order:

THESE OILS NEED TO BE CROSS-REFERENCED FROM OFFICIAL SITE TO BE SURE THAT THEY ARE APPROVED.

(SOME .......MOST, ARE NOT!!!!)

Approved OILS will have a test number and seal on label.

Amsoil Saber Professional: API-TC; ISO-L-EGD; JASO FD

Bel-Ray (many synth ester and/or petroleum types). (everything they produce looks top notch ISO and JASO).

Blue Marble: TCW-3; ISO-L-EGD; JASO FD

Craftsman #7136555 w/fuel stabilizer. API-TC

Cenex Blend Two Cycle Oil: no stabilizer. Meets or exceeds API-TC; JASO FB; JASO FC

Dolmar: w/stabilizer. Meets or exceeds ISO-L-EGD; JASO FD

Echo-Powerblend (NEW) w/fuel stabilizer. Exceeds: ISO-L-EGD; JASO FD (M345)

Echo-Powerblend (OLD) w/fuel stabilizer. Meets: ISO-L-EGB; JASO FC (M345)

Fuchs/Silkolene: many synth ester and/or petroleum types. (thread response did not specify). (everything they produce looks top notch ISO and JASO).

Husqvarna LS Synthetic: ISO--L-EGD; JASO FD

Klotz Benol Racing Castor Oil: (from company website: No ratings found).

Klotz R-50 Racing Pure Synthetic: (from company website: No ratings found).

Klotz Super Techniplate (80% synth. 20% Castor) (from company website: No ratings found).

Laser 100% Synthetic Premium: ISO-L-EGD approved; JASO FC approved.

Maxima: many synth and/or petroleum types . (thread response did not specify). (everything they produce looks top notch ISO and JASO).

Mobil 1 Racing 2T Fully Synthetic: API-TC; ISO-L-EGC; ISO-L-EGD; JASO FC; JASO FD; TISI Meets SAE Grade1&2

Quaker State Conventional: No stabilizer. API-TC; JASO FA; JASO FB

Pennzoil: API-TC

Poulan Synthetic 2cycle: (specs coming)

Redline: synthetic ester base oils, many types. (thread response did not specify). (from company website: No ratings found).

Red Max Low Smoke, Max-Life Universal Oil: ISO-L-EGD; JASO FD (M345)

Stihl Conventional (orange bottle): W/stabilzer. No ratings noted.

Stihl HP Ultra Full Synthetic (silver bottle): W/stabilzer. API TC; API TC+; JASO FB

Tanaka Perfect Mix: ISO-L-EGD; JASO FC

Woodland Pro-Full Synthetic: W/stabilzer. ISO-L-EGD; JASO FC; JASO FD

**KiwiOilBoiler** · 10-26-2011, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by one.man.band

hoping to get a reply from the resident refinery gurus like Bob Wright or KiwiOilBoiler or others on this:

recycled oil:

have y'all ever dealt with recycled oil at the refinery?
what do you guys think of recycled oil?
could it be re-refined (or whatever step is necessary) to make a clean/quality product?

think that most if not all oil will be recycled in the future sooner or later....and would appreciate your thoughts to enlighten us on this.

thx.

Hi, sorry just got back from a (poor) fishing trip.

Our site makes fuel grades. Jet/Kerosene, Petrol/Gasoline, GasOil/Diesel and heavy gunk like fuel oil, ships bunker oil and bitumen for roading. Nearest lube oil refinery is in Australia, so i am reading all this with as much interest as any other reader, but dont have any insight on the lube oil refining question. What i can confirm as Bob has said is that BigOil invented recycling, not to be 'green' but because it makes money. Everything here termed 'slops' goes back to a huge mixing tank, is blended back into the distillers feed and we try and coax a bit more money out of it.

For the record i use Husky XP oil in my saws after much research regarding whether i should use the same Motorex 2T i use in my KTM dirtbike. Even Motorex say to use specific 'air-cooled' oil in OPE, and the Husky XP is API-TC. New Zealand manufacturer/source is in no way guaranteed to be same as you guys get up there. For instance our Stihl oil here is plainly branded with the Castrol logo, but i bet yours isn't.

Cheers, Adam