What ones of these mini grinders have reversible motors?
What ones of these mini grinders have reversible motors?
Last edited by Tony Snyder; 12-11-2002 at 06:17 AM.
Can't say I had the same problem cutting locust. Cut 1,100 10' posts to fence the farm and did not have to replace the chain, did have to sharpen it a time or two. It may be there is sand in those locust you are cutting. Something else you should check is the spur or drum for wear, a worn sprocket will strech and damage a new chain in a hurry. If you have not replaced the spur in a while I would look for it to be worn and replace it. I hand sharpen my chains.
Thanks for the input so far guys. It takes me 10-15 to sharpen an 18" chain, because I clamp the tool to the bar, set it up, etc... I do this to "assure" consistent cutter length/angle etc... I don't do this in the woods, I run through my chains and sharpen at home. I do not claim to be an expert filer by any means but I do have considerable experience sharpening cutting tools for metalworking, so perhaps I'm being too particular. If you freehand file all the time, how do you know your cutters are the same length? How close do they need to be?Your "angles" are sure to be radii of some sort, does it matter?
JimL, 2-3 min.?? for a 24" chain?? Heck it can take that long for me to find the shortest/ most damaged cutter. If it's uniformly dull, and not too dull I can touch one up fairly quick, but it seems to me that after freehanding one several times your gonna have some pretty inconsistant cutter lengths. Just how fussy is this sharpening anyway ??
Treeclimber, you must be in the trees alot and not in the ground that much where one may encounter wood that has sat in or on the ground after clearing with machinery. You must also cut much softer stuff than locust and hickory and cherry and apple.
I have been cutting for 10 years, 6 of that clearing my own land and selling firewood, etc. At least 7 of those years I spent filing the chains and if they were too bad, just taking them to the power shop to be ground. One gets to a point of equalization where their time and their expense comes to the point where a purchase like a grinder, or a better saw, can be capitalized and make more money later on. Each person's point of that understanding is different than others'
I am certain that the consistency of the bark and the hardness of the wood contributes to how long the edge on a chain lasts.
Please tell me that the butts of those cigarettes that you are killing yourself with do not end up on the forest floor when you are done.
Thanks for the comments,
Good Lord LostWater!I`m not a big fan of cigarettes either but it seems to me that if a guy threw as many as 20 thoroughly extinguished butts on the ground during a day in the woods, 99.99% of them would never again see the light of day. That statement is almost on par with the greenies demanding that bar oil be biodegradable. Your hyper-eco sensitivity wouldn`t have anything to do with Brian basically saying that you must not know how to file or keep your chain out of the dirt would it? Maybe his delivery wasn`t what you like, but I believe that his message was well intentioned. I`ve got grinders out the wazoo but I prefer a hand filed chain, which you can get much sharper than a ground chain with less total down time once you figure it out. I keep the grinders, all set up in different ways, for the "rock mechanics" or myself with the trail saw. If you really like the grinder that`s fine too, just say you like grinders. Rationalizing it by saying that "time is money" and "I guess I saw a whole hell of a lot of hard stuff" don`t make valid arguments for one way over another. It`s not the hard stuff that is giving you grief, it`s the abrasive stuff. Figure out ways to not cut through mud encrusted wood, bark mostly, and even a fraction of a second of chain contact with the ground is too much. I think Tony was alluding to the fact that many people never figure out proper sharpening but it isn`t brain surgery. It just takes a desire to understand what you need to accomplish with the tooth, and then patient practice. If time is money, then so is all the chain you burn off every time you grind, and all the down time removing and replacing chains. I don`t mean to offend you Mark, just want you to realize that there is possibly another good way of doing things.Please tell me that the butts of those cigarettes that you are killing yourself with do not end up on the forest floor when you are done.
django, 2-3 minutes for a 24" chain isn`t too unusual in my opinion. Of course it will take longer if you don`t or havent done the same volume of chains, but I think the trick to quickness is the same trick that helps you keep uniformity in the teeth. File often enough that you don`t need any more than 2 or 3 licks with the file. When you need to hog off a bunch of material is where I think you can get into trouble. I know that common convention states that you must find the shortest tooth and make all the others equal to it, but for practical purposes, I disagree. Of course I try to be as uniform as possible, by taking the same number of strokes with the same pressure, from each tooth, but if I have a short tooth, unless it has a big ole burr on it, I disregard it. Eventually all the others will be as short. Using the same # of strokes per tooth will give you reasonably close, actually very close, tooth lengths on a side. The biggest problem most people have is getting different angles on the right side vs the left, that`s just something you have to be aware of and continuously monitor and compensate for until it becomes second nature to do both sides the same. If you are determined to learn freehand filing, it doesn`t take more than a few hours of actual practice. Believe me, I`ve tried every gadget and technique under the sun looking for a better mousetrap and I finally settled on freehand. You will find in time that visibly unequal cutters from side to side can cut well if you have the depth gauges set right. Cutting wood fiber is not as much a science as machining metals and other materials can be, and of course the grain structure and alignment in wood is nowhere near as uniform or predictable as a chunk of metal, which I think negates the need for extreme precission in chainsaw chain unless you are racing. Just my take on things, Russ
I am not hyper eco sensitive by any means!. I still see cigarette butts on my farm from the person whom I bought it from 7 yeears earlier when he had crews logging.
Not only is smoking dangerous to one's health (an everyine aw/in 25 feet) , it is a firehazard and most smokers litter w/ impunity. I know, I grew up w/ chain smokers as parents.
My post was not quick to judge, nor was it defensive. Funny thing how this medium causes people to jump to conclusions since they do not have the added benefit of emphasis of voice and inflection of tone.
Thanks for the comments however.
Thanks Russ, & group. I think I'll keep filing for now, and practice my freehand technique. I know the proof is in the pudding as they say. If it cuts good it is good........... Say, do they have filing competitions at the Clearwater type events? Could be a new catagory. Of course, nobody would want to divulge their secret technique.........
Thats the thing about the internet. Its hard to tell some ones intentions with out the benifit of sight, and hearing. Jokers comes across as quit abrasive at times, but I know hes not. He just has a no nonsense style that is easly confused with out the senses mentioned above. BTW I hate cigs.My post was not quick to judge, nor was it defensive. Funny thing how this medium causes people to jump to conclusions since they do not have the added benefit of emphasis of voice and inflection of tone.
Last edited by bwalker; 12-11-2002 at 12:30 PM.
Ben, Thanks for the words of support on my behalf, and your point about my communication style is well taken. I will try to work on that because frankly, anybody posting here has a common interest with me and I like to be able to give and take with them and sometimes mix it up a little, all in good fun. Russ
Hey jokers, Have you tried the chain sharp file jig. It files the depth gauge and cutter at the same time so tooth length does not matter. I really like the idea myself.
Thanks for stating that so well, Russ. I appreciate your ability to state what you mean in a no-nonsense manner without sounding critical (like I usually do ).
And I'd love to be able to quit smoking. But it took me almost 20 years before I was able to quit drinking, and hopefully I can attack the smoking thing soon. I know it's a nasty habit and I'm very much aware of where my cigarette butts go. They either get flipped into the back of my pickup or stuffed in my pocket. Littering customer's lawns with my trash is not acceptable. Never has been.
And you're right about the conditions of logging in the woods versus doing residential/ commercial trimming and removals, Mark. I've never done any logging but I'd imagine it's a lot harder on the chain. I was only trying to express Russ's point about how long it takes to swap out a chain in the field. Not only do you get trash sandwiched in between the bar and case (and usually in the oil hole), but when you get home you have a bunch of dull chains. I can touch up a chain as fast as I can swap one out, and I'm not toting home dull chains to sharpen at night. It did take practice to get to that point, though.
One of the features I like on the Stihl chain (and I think Oregon is using it now also) is the 'cheat line' etched in the top of each tooth. Like Russ, I take the same number of strokes on each tooth, matching my top angle to the 'cheat line'. Without that line my angles would probably be off fairly quickly.
I think Brian was just using the smoke as a time reference...less than 5 minutes. Extrapolating littering from that seems tacky to me.
LOSTWATER, You are looking for the wrong thing on your farm; look for mushrooms, dear tracks, ginsing, and wild turkeys. Forget the Coke cans and cigarette buts; you can't much about them. Dwell on the positive!
I have found much on my farm. The deer, I shoot a one or two a year and my neighbours and friends shot 4 or so between all of them and there still are too many. 4 foot tall rats, I say.
I also found the merkels as well. They make good fried in batter or just stewed in butter, Yum.
The ginseng, I haven't much found. There is someone who buys it in town. Maybe I oughta get off my rear and learn how to identify, a potential wild cash crop is in ginseng.
I see turkeys quite often, but I have never shot any. Bobcat too, I get close enough to them, but I find them so pretty that I probably won't take any of them.
I do get pissed off by the amount of trash that is still around though. It makes you wonder why some people are such morons and are not good conservationists and stewards of their land. It is frustrating, nevertheless.
Remember all, conservatism and conservationism go hand in hand and are not mutually exclusive.
Thanks for the comments,
I agree with 165 and Tony. If you maintain your chains like 165 does it's much better to file. If you have employees that don't have the same concern for the equipment that you do and occassionally use it as a ditchwitch or a cut off machine (on sidewalks or driveways) it can be very time consuming with a file. I check my saws as they come in and if they need sharpened or if the chains have been changed during the day I collect them up and put them on the grinder. With a truly dull chain I feel it takes longer with a file. Also, if a lag bolt knocks a cutter off it can take a long time with a file to take a cutter half way back once the chain has been repaired.
How you do anything, is how you do everything.
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