friction hitches,how safe are they!!?

**freeweight** · 07-04-2010, 09:42 AM

are there any tests or experiments to see just how well the hitches work to stop a good amout of weight from falling from a good distance?

i was show the taut line when i first started but i wasnt comfy on the 'two under /two over" so i did two under 3 over and liked it,then switched to the BH and found when descending i would slide a extra 2-5 inches whe i stopped i didnt like this,so i did a 5/3 BH but then i got to playing AROUND ,and rigged a weird blakes up that was 3 over one under then up through the bridge back,i like this,or 4 over ,one under then up through the NORMAL two that is used in BH,i feel safe of this ,

but im curious ,just how well would these hitches stop 220pounds falling a good ways ...

**ssurveyor** · 07-04-2010, 11:39 AM

Here is an article that may answer your question. several hitches were tested including the Blake's.

http://www.treemettlenexus.com/pdfs/...ompilation.pdf

**RacerX** · 07-04-2010, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by ssurveyor

Here is an article that may answer your question. several hitches were tested including the Blake's.

http://www.treemettlenexus.com/pdfs/...ompilation.pdf

Excellent article. Seems like they're leaning towards using mostly 10mm or larger prusik cords. I prefer a 10mm but from what I've read here on this forum many climbers prefer smaller cords. Very interesting. Thanks for posting the article.

**imagineero** · 07-05-2010, 03:16 AM

you might also like to read this

http://www.paci.com.au/downloads_pub...pment_BWRS.pdf

which was done by my local mountain rescue team with a load cell borrowed from a mine. I come from primarily a climbing and caving background, and this article game me food for thought. I started on prussiks in my early days, went to mechanical devices and mainly ended up using things like mini traxions and shunts. The fail point for the prussiks, even at smaller sizes, outdoes most of the mechanical ascenders. I always used 7mm or 8mm prusik. 10 is too much and you wont get bite - it will just slip. Ive seen guys using prussik cord as small as 5mm.

Shaun

**treesquirrel** · 07-05-2010, 05:19 AM

8mm bee line for me, never had any issues. Holds like glue, I use a schwabish.

**tree MDS** · 07-05-2010, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by treesquirrel

8mm bee line for me, never had any issues. Holds like glue, I use a schwabish.

Have you tried the vt too? If so how would you comprare the two re tending? Does the swab tighten up a lot and require loosening?

Thinking of trying that same deal this week.

**freeweight** · 07-05-2010, 08:06 AM

well ive never used split tails or eye to eyes so maybe i dont get it ,what is the line(s) made of that will prevent 10mm from catching hold? ...not trying to be a smart ass just never had experience with this ,i mean climbing lines bite and they are bigger

**oldirty** · 07-05-2010, 09:07 AM

mds. when you gonna try the distal, my nistal? not a bad knot man.

freeweight. i take it you climb in a very old school type of system.

get yourself 2 biner and 1 mini pulley and start trying to use a slpittail setup and evolve your climbing system from there. its so easy even a cave man could do it, right mds?

edit: 10mm beeline for me.

**tree MDS** · 07-05-2010, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by oldirty

mds. when you gonna try the distal, my nistal? not a bad knot man.

freeweight. i take it you climb in a very old school type of system.

get yourself 2 biner and 1 mini pulley and start trying to use a slpittail setup and evolve your climbing system from there. its so easy even a cave man could do it, right mds?

edit: 10mm beeline for me.

Yeah, thats right, been meaning to try the distal.. something 10mm too. that 8mm is just too small.

That is funny about the caveman deal.. just remember, I was climbing trees when you were still in your diapers tough guy. lol.

Edit: old school baby!

**tree md** · 07-05-2010, 03:09 PM

I don't understand why the 10mm is not biting for you. Are you climbing on 10mm line and tying your hitch on a traditional system or is it a 10mm split tail?

When I climbed on a traditional system I used the tail of my line to tie my hitch and never had any problems with the hitch not biting or slipping on the half inch line. Same thing when I went to a split tail... Still using half inch. I tried the Blakes and Tautline but I preferred to climb on a prussic back then; 2 over 3 with both ends exiting the coils in the same direction. When I was younger and skinnier I would climb 2 over 2 but as I got older and gained weight it was necessary for me to add another coil to my hitch to keep it from slipping.

I would strongly recommend giving the split tail a go if you're not already climbing on one. So much more functional. It is a dynamic climbing system which allows you to recrotch or tie in at any point during your ascent (or descent) without having to untie and retie your hitch. I am climbing on kind of a minimalist system now. I am climbing on a VT using an 8mm HRC eye to eye prussic cord and using a boat swivel snap to tend my slack instead of a pulley. I also keep it all on one biner so it is light weight and efficient for me and I don't have my whole hitch system cluttered with gear. I do carry an extra biner with me in case I want to use the system on two biners, like when I am using my climb line as a secondary lanyard. If you're not climbing with some kind of split tail system now you are seriously limiting yourself and how fast you can work.

Edit: Oh yeah, I meant to comment on the smaller diameter cord. It is much more responsive than the heavier splitails or traditional hitch. My VT never binds up or slips on the 8mm. It still amazes me how responsive and slick this setup is. It's like climbing on a mechanical device.

**treesquirrel** · 07-05-2010, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by tree MDS

Have you tried the vt too? If so how would you comprare the two re tending? Does the swab tighten up a lot and require loosening?

Thinking of trying that same deal this week.

I have not used a VT. I was but a simple prussic, or blakes hitch user until trying the schwabish. I really trust this hitch and it releases well and is easier to re-set and loosen from heavy loading than a prussic. I have yet to have one tighten up so much it made life difficult but I fuss over my friction hitches a lot, maybe too much. Checking, checking, and checking them for anything and everything while I am moving around the canopy.

**1I'dJak** · 07-05-2010, 08:23 PM

I zipped down my climb line 60' when grappling over to another tree from the one I was tied on to. It was wet and my grapple broke...shooting me back 15'-20'. My blakes hitch didn't grab my line and I zipped all the way down my climb line down till I hit my stopper knot....thank god it was there! Sickening sound hearing the rope zinging thru...Best feeling in the world when I came to a stop with a big bounce. Shot back to the tree I was tied into feet first. Bent both shanks on my climbing spurs right in... Since then I don't trust my hitch so much in the wet... got rid of the blaze too...

**treesquirrel** · 07-05-2010, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by tree md

I would strongly recommend giving the split tail a go if you're not already climbing on one. So much more functional. It is a dynamic climbing system which allows you to recrotch or tie in at any point during your ascent (or descent) without having to untie and retie your hitch..

Ahh yes, my first time using a spit tail system killed any desire I ever had of going trad ever again. The only way I would climb traditional now is if I had to perform an aerial rescue with nothing but my harness, and a rope and a few biners. Not my choice but if a fellow tree guys life was in the balance I'd pretty much climb with some fishing line if I had too.

**tree md** · 07-05-2010, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by treesquirrel

I have not used a VT. I was but a simple prussic, or blakes hitch user until trying the schwabish. I really trust this hitch and it releases well and is easier to re-set and loosen from heavy loading than a prussic. I have yet to have one tighten up so much it made life difficult but I fuss over my friction hitches a lot, maybe too much. Checking, checking, and checking them for anything and everything while I am moving around the canopy.

I haven't tried the Schwabish yet but that is the reason I love the VT; I never have to break my knot anymore. It never binds. the only thing is it produces more heat with the thinner cord and it gets hot to hold if you try to descend too fast. But I have yet to bind one up. The old school prussic was pretty good about not binding as well but it would bind if loaded heavy.

**Del_** · 07-06-2010, 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by treesquirrel

Ahh yes, my first time using a spit tail system killed any desire I ever had of going trad ever again. The only way I would climb traditional now is if I had to perform an aerial rescue with nothing but my harness, and a rope and a few biners. Not my choice but if a fellow tree guys life was in the balance I'd pretty much climb with some fishing line if I had too.

I've been a VT climber for six or so years now but always use a traditional system for my second tie in off the end of my main climbing rope. The best thing about the traditional system is.......it's always there!