Thread: Check out this new lowering device

My recollection was that it cost somewhere near $1,500. For a tool that doesn't raise, that seems steep.

How often is it necessary to run two ropes on one tree?

How often is rope kinking an issue? If that's a concern, end for end the rope once in a while. Picking a rope that's around 25% longer than the height of the rigging point makes for a short tail. When hockles build up, it's pretty easy to work them off the end. Having a really long rope is problematic.

To me, this tool solves some problems in a more complex process than needed.

Being able to pivot the bollard might be nice but I wonder how many times that would be used actually.

The tool is very well thought out and built. There are several clever items in there. Too bad it doesn't seem to hit the right price point. Too close to a GRCS/Hobbs and too far from an FOS or POW.

Tom

Looks way too big and chunky, and not able to raise limbs??? No thanks. I ought to be a GRCS salesman as much as I brag about it. Erik, if you worked with me for 1 week you would buy a GRCS. I use it all the time, and the more you have it the more uses you think up. I have a PWIII and it is a great device, if you don't have a GRCS. If you have a GRCS your PW will collect dust. I just bought a dig camera I'm gonna start shooting some of the amazing stuff we do with the GRCS.
I've been working with a 75 ton and 60 ton crane for the last 2 weeks that is the only device better than a GRCS. Hands down GRCS is my favorite gadget, and if it grew legs and left me tomorrow I'd be on the phone with Charley P ordering another one that day. $2500.00 is a steal for such a tool!
Greg

Looks way to complicated, what ever happended to Keep It Simple Stupid?

Kenn

Greg... for $2500 I can build my own... 10 times over.

Dream on.... The winch alone if you bought it in a store is about 1500.00, winch handle is $100, etc.... I thought about that and figured I could save about $500 if I had a local welder fab it up for me, but I came to my senses and shelled out the dough.
If you ever find yourself in Jacksonville FL give me a call I'd be glad to demo it for anyone interested.
Greg

ahhh, no you could not.
The Harken capstan alone costs (retail) about $1,000. Plus the one model that is appropriate for tree work (size, strength, etc) is a special order so it may even cost a bit more. That does not include sales tax, shipping, etc etc.
so you buy a capstan, ok now you have to buy the tie down hardware for cinching the strap to the tree, then you have to buy the strap.
After all that you still need to reverse engineer the fairlead and base plate.
All told your costs would come pretty close to the sale cost.
Lets say you are a first class welder able to set beads on hardened steel that will perform in shock load senerios without failing. Lets also assume you are a damm good designer/copier and can set up the welding to spec.
If you are this skilled you will know right off what the time involved would be to get this product finished.
Welders of this type get $75.00-$100.00/ hour. So you would do the math and see that the costs are high.
Oh I forgot, the paint. You could rattle can it to keep the rust at bay but this wears off real quick. Powder coating is what Greg gets done and that costs as well. Powder coating costs even more for a single project vrs. mass orders.
All in all I would venture an educated guess that you indeed could not, (and wont) get a GRCS unit made ten times over for the price of one GRCS. In fact you cannot get even ONE unit made for that price.
I know a little about these devices and have gone into extensive talks with the manufacturer (Greg Good) and have come to learn that the profit margin is less than you might think.
Now dont think I am biased toward the GRCS (well a little) rest assured I would turn on the manufacturer like a rabid dog if I thought the product was lame.
But this device is well made and works for the type of tree work I do. High end pruning and removals where total limb and wood control and fautless removals in multi millionair estates is required.
I have tested this device using a 3500 Lb. Volvo station wagon dropping it 10' and 20' into rigging (shock loading) and have the video to prove it. I did this also with the new Hobbs. Drop for drop the GRCS excelled. Not only that but the GRCS used was one of the first made, not the upgraded model available today. And the test was done against the newest Hobbs on the market. The Hobbs bent, the GRCS did not.
The GRCS on one test moved up the trunk and popped off the outer part of the capstan while the Hobbs bent it's frame. The GRCS required a $160.00 repair while the Hobbs requires a new rebuild of the frame. In the later test with the GRCS bolted to the tree it took the blow from the Volvo and did not bend, brake, or otherwise suffer any damage whatsoever. In fact it is in use today by Gerri Baranek winching big wood in Norther CA.
Any questions or if you would like to see the video it will be on display at TCIA in Detroit.
I hope this helps
Frans
Ahhh I forgot about the winch handle (thanks Greg from N. Florida) Another $100.00

Originally posted by Frans
The Hobbs bent, the GRCS did not.

Don't let Noonan see this.

Nick,
I had Sam Noonan there as well as Ken the maker of the Hobbs
Check out the DVD at TCIA in Detroit! It is great viewing
Also shows alot about how ropes fail, where they fail and what it looks like to see a new 5/8", 9/16" double braid ropes snap like a wet noodle (the ttwo inch double braid did'nt brake)
Frans
Frans

I know, he was telling me all about it in August. He was strongly defending the Hobbs, though. It's a good thing I had heard your side of the story, too.

greg, Frans...Who said anything about BUYING the winch?

Those are easily made as well, with the right tooling.

Even if you made the whole thing out of 304 stainless, it wouldn't be that bad.



Not knocking the GRCS, and I don't really GAF what the profit margin is on them. I just don't think they're worth $2500 any way you slice it.

Oh... any why do you think a Harken 9not the only game in town, BTW) winch for those is $1500?


'Cuz some sucker will pay it. After all, if you can afford a few million for a boat, what's a couple of grand for a winch, right?

greg, Frans...Who said anything about BUYING the winch?

"Those are easily made as well, with the right tooling".

"Even if you made the whole thing out of 304 stainless, it wouldn't be that bad.
Erik".

I respect your 'can do' attitude, after all that exact frame of mind is what built our country.
HOWEVER, should you be able to build a ratcheting bollard with the same tolerances as the Harken you would be a millionair.
You are correct that these devices are used in just about every racing/sailing, fishing vessel, expensive or not.
The machining, forging, and tolerances are done by some of the most advanced metalugists in the world today. The parts, casing, etc are made with advanced materials such as alloys, stainless steel, high carbon composites, etc.
I dont mean to slam you but you are talking out of your hat to the extent that it is boardering on the inane and embarrising.

I have read and learned from your posts before and these current statements are way off from what I have learned from you in the past
Take the purchase price of the GRCS unit. To ANY owner of a tree company $2500. is maybe one or two jobs (even in an area with a depressed economy). This up front cost can be easily defrayed in just a few jobs. If you are a business owner with a tree company that is actually doing tree jobs day in and day out this cost is negligable. O.K. say you are a contract climber so dont see the kind of cash flow of an owner.
I know several contract climbers who have bought this GRCS. As a result they have increased their worth and ability of charge more because of this tool.
So do the math again in your mind
.
Hey I know guys who will go to the bar and spend $50.00 a week, or put $500.00 signs on their truck. But ask them to buy a winch and they choke. Go figure. I dont mind I get to see them thrashing about taking wraps, lowering each limb and fighting to get them off a roof, disentangle them from the rest of the tree, or pull them out of the shrubs. It is very intertaining. For me I want to continue to evolve, not stay at, or go down, the evolutionary ladder.
(I still need to learn to spell)

I like to see this, it is like watching primitive unevolved human throwbacks trying to reinvent the wheel or make a fire.

The point is- if you have a tree business, the cost is very small to get jobs done quickly and efficently. And it is essential to have the tools that make that happen. Any successfull business owner has that desire formost.
Frans

Frans...

The trees around here simply don't get big enough to need something like that.


"Can do"? You betcha.

"The machining, forging, and tolerances are done by some of the most advanced metalugists in the world today. The parts, casing, etc are made with advanced materials such as alloys, stainless steel, high carbon composites, etc."...

And that's just the line of happy horsecrap that allows them to sell them for so much.

News flash... the materials aren't that new, the tolerances aren't that tight.

The most exotic element in them is Columbium alloy stainless... and even that's not that expensive.


It's all moot anyways. You're happy with your purchase, I'm happy with mine. =)

Oh... I'm not saying a GRCS isn't an awesome toy to have around...


simply that for what I do, it's just not a justifiable expense.

We are beating a dead horse here I know.... The GRCS after purchase quickly moves out of the "cool gadget" catagory and in to a "required tool" once you fully know its capabilities. Trust me the GRCS will make you money, save you time, and put you into a whole new world of rigging possibilities for triming and removals.

I am an owner/climber and I used to think that $2500. was a steep price. Not any more, it is a bargain at that price.

Greg
(not a GRCS sales rep)