Thread: Project Proposals - CYA

I was wondering what all of you do as far as CYA when it comes to having a customer not pay, or argue about price after the job is complete. It hasn't happened to me yet, but I'm sure it will. I have the customer sign and date the project proposal, collect half the money up front when possible, and take before and after pictures to doccument my work.

What is sufficient doccumentation if you have to go to court? What other creative methods have you used to avoid that?

With signatures and pictures you are doing more than most, I think. Witnesses to the contract and the work are also good.

Half-up-front I do rarely. If aggressively done, it could backfire if the payer develops the notion that s/he's already paid.

As sort of a CYA note, I don't know if it would apply to general tort cases, but it does in medicine, Digital imagery is not acceptable as evidence. The premise is that a digital image is too easily manipulated. Strictly polaroids. FWIW.

Whoa! I did not know that!

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
Whoa! I did not know that!

That makes two of us.

I very rarely collect THAT much up front.

A signed proposal/contract is probably more than sufficient in itself. After all, the burden of proof in civil cases is much less than in a criminal case.

I have never experienced a need to go to court over a failure to pay, and most owners I've talked to have had problems with payment only very rarely. Most companies attempt to collect on their own, then go through a collection agency (who will take 40% of what they collect) In Ohio (and possibly your state) you can put a mechanic's lein on the property if you have not been paid. This ensures that you get paid someday for your work, but doesn't help your short-term situation. A signed contract would be the extent of what you need.

50% up front is pretty hefty, but taking a deposit, say 20-30% is a good practice, If you've already got some of the money, they are commited. I've had people keep on shopping even after signing a contract, then cancel when they got a lower price. Some people even charge a fee for the initial estimate, and then apply it to the total, if they choose to use them. Let's face it, someone who is willing to pay a modest fee for your consultation is a lot more serious about getting work done than someone who isn't.

Of course you waive the fee for repeat customers and referrals.

Originally posted by alanarbor
Of course you waive the fee for repeat customers and referrals.

Why? Is your time worth less for them?
If I waived the fee for some of my clients they may take me for an hourslong stroll about the estate every time a branch looks wrong to them.

The only times I've collected 50% up front has been for multi-day projects, nobody has ever complained. The way I see it, they have already decided to spend the money, I'm just limiting my loss if the customer has a change of heart. I never ask for money up front from past good customers, as I know they are good for it.

My biz is very small, just me and my bro. I would think that larger companies would run into collection problems more frequently than I do. Just the mentality that it won't hurt anybody to stiff a company. (all you business owners are rich, right? ha.)

As far as the digital photos, right now I'm still using a 35mm camera (I decided to shell out some money on a good camera a couple years before digital became big). However, I would find it far fetched for a tree service guy to fabricate digital photos, with convincing quality that could fool the legal system. I would think that digital photos would still have some value. After all, film can be manipulated too.

I was looking at buying a cheap lo rez digital camera for work, not much of a camera, but would do the job, and if it got lost or broken, no big loss. http://directron.com/chameleon1.html

Thanks everybody for your responces.

Cheap digital cameras take crappy pics.

I usually collect a (non-refundable) 10% deposit. If they want to cancel the contact and go with someone cheaper, at least I've got something for the time it took to go give the estimate, write up the paperwork, and shuffle trucks/equipment around if needed.

This is what rain days are for. You can go out on the rainy days and make threats and torture you clients. Maybe tell them you are there to repo that 110 foot oak tree in the front yard. Or if iwas a removal just tell them your gonna bring it back and instead of dumping chips and hauling logs off and paying to get rid of it use their property as a dump site.

That would be sweet... they'd pull their Benz into the drive and be greeted by a pile of chips and a 5gal bucket of wood glue.

undermining my own argument about digital photos, I made this last winter in my ample free time.

Bad simon!...BAD! Off the moon...OFF!