Thread: Young generation of tree workers

I'm a young guy myself and can vouch that my generation is horrible. None of them want to work, it's always someone elses fault and someone owes them. It"s a real real problem for employers across the board not just in the tree industry

Most novice climbers don't like being told how to do their job, even if they are doing it wrong. I was a hard head too back before they invented the wheel. Some old guy would tell me, do it this way or say,'' might be easier if you did this''. I wouldn't listen. But I found out its not so much they knew it all, they just knew what worked. I am careful not to bruise any ego's when I work with younger climbers. I might make a suggestion and slide it in off handed.
I have trained a few climbers over the years, and I tell them,''learn my way first, then you can change up later if you want. Some times I have to say, don't ever do it like I just did, The do as I say not as I do speech.
I was working on a crew last year and they use to get me so frustrated. I lost my temper more then once. One day I asked them, "are you guys stupid or what. Your not learning even basic stuff like tying a knot. Their answer surprised me. No were not stupid, we just don't care. There it is in a nut shell.
I do care, but you can't force a person to. I had good teachers when I was learning. I trusted them. If they said I could do something in the tree, I would put my own fear or nervousness aside and do what they told me. I learned a long time ago its easy to be a big frog in a little pond. But you one day start with a new crew or company and your short comings are obvious. There are some masters out there who put even a good climber to shame. Best be humble, and learn what you can. Everyone has something they can teach ya. Otherwise you become that guy who after 10 years only has 1 year experience 10 times.
Some of you cocky young punks, are going to go on to be masters, then you'll understand. It's all part of life.

Tru dat beasty! I was trained by a ol schooler, total A hole to everybody, but he was freakin bad a s s in the air. Hard as a Marine D.I. and as knowledgeable as Botanist. Would scream at me for screwin up, my wife hates his guts! BUT! He taught me well, gave me the ways to do it that work and would talk to me while hanging out in the tree, explaining the way of the Jedi. It sucked for a long time, having him around, but I knew I needed it, he kept me far away from the darkside, so I told my wife to deal with it. He was like a old crusty SgtMaj that just got put in charge of the base daycare. His opinion of the new guys "baaaaaah, they all suck" New guys are not willing to get told they are a dumb as s, they want to be coddled and lightly groomed. I have my oldest out now, he wants to learn (FINALLY!!!!!) He is my son, so he knows how I am, he has the thick skin that is needed, I have built it up over the years busting his ba lls on a daily basis, driving the way things work in his head, so he should do well. I plan on having him pretty proficient in the tree by the time he goes back to school, that way, he could get on at a outfit around there, on breaks and such to make some coin, starvin student and all. When it is all said and done and he is a full blown preacher, black and white collar, I hope he will pray for the tree as he prunes it!

When it comes to the new gen, I gotta say that all the good ones are serving in the sandbox, stop in to your local Marine Recruiter office, let them know your looking, if you are, they will put ya down. Most Marines, when they come home, check in there, just to say hi and get a pulse on the community. They are drug tested,combat tested and most of the time have thickest skin than any of us could ever hope for. Good place to find that kid that can be taught, and you wont hurt his feelings.

Watched the inside scoop on Barrett fire arms last night on Nat Geo. All U.S. outfits get their Barrett .50 cal Sniper rifles maintenance'd there at the factory. Inside of a scope cap, a young sniper wrote this, BTW, this weapon came from Afghanistan. "GOD, forgive me for what I am about to do, but these bastards must die" Again, most of the good kids currently have a job to do.

Originally Posted by sgreanbeans

Tru dat beasty! I was trained by a ol schooler, total A hole to everybody, but he was freakin bad a s s in the air. Hard as a Marine D.I. and as knowledgeable as Botanist. Would scream at me for screwin up, my wife hates his guts! BUT! He taught me well, gave me the ways to do it that work and would talk to me while hanging out in the tree, explaining the way of the Jedi. It sucked for a long time, having him around, but I knew I needed it, he kept me far away from the darkside, so I told my wife to deal with it. He was like a old crusty SgtMaj that just got put in charge of the base daycare. His opinion of the new guys "baaaaaah, they all suck" New guys are not willing to get told they are a dumb as s, they want to be coddled and lightly groomed. I have my oldest out now, he wants to learn (FINALLY!!!!!) He is my son, so he knows how I am, he has the thick skin that is needed, I have built it up over the years busting his ba lls on a daily basis, driving the way things work in his head, so he should do well. I plan on having him pretty proficient in the tree by the time he goes back to school, that way, he could get on at a outfit around there, on breaks and such to make some coin, starvin student and all. When it is all said and done and he is a full blown preacher, black and white collar, I hope he will pray for the tree as he prunes it!

When it comes to the new gen, I gotta say that all the good ones are serving in the sandbox, stop in to your local Marine Recruiter office, let them know your looking, if you are, they will put ya down. Most Marines, when they come home, check in there, just to say hi and get a pulse on the community. They are drug tested,combat tested and most of the time have thickest skin than any of us could ever hope for. Good place to find that kid that can be taught, and you wont hurt his feelings.

Watched the inside scoop on Barrett fire arms last night on Nat Geo. All U.S. outfits get their Barrett .50 cal Sniper rifles maintenance'd there at the factory. Inside of a scope cap, a young sniper wrote this, BTW, this weapon came from Afghanistan. "GOD, forgive me for what I am about to do, but these bastards must die" Again, most of the good kids currently have a job to do.

Where is the ABSOLUTLEY AWESOME button for this???!!

Attitude Reflects Leadership. No matter the trade. As a Job Sight Boss your responsibility is to the safety of your crew and the customer and their property and to the productivity of your employers company. If an employee will not listen and obey you (specifically shut his mouth when told) he has no business being on your crew: he is a danger and a liability, a law suit waiting to happen; I will take a Slow Leak over a loose cannon any day, but will abide neither long. Your employer, by placing you in charge has tacitly endorsed your opinion; if he won't listen to your professional, experienced opinion, then possibly he doesn't value you or your input and you need to seriously examine your professional relationship.

Young bucks should be given the chance to shape up: on Friday night pull them aside (alone, they'll appreciate that if not respect you for it) and give them their options: shape up or ship out. Let them think about it over the weekend and see what Monday brings. I had an employee who was just not a good fit, scared of heights a Slow Leak, so I met him one morning in his car and basically said "Hey, it's not a good fit". But he really wanted the job, so he applied himself and overcame his impediments. I was proud of him and we parted on good terms at the conclusion of the project. But it was also my job to know what his strengths and weaknesses where, and to task him appropriately.

But many of you are right: my generation is soft and spoiled and we are Momma's Precious Infants, who think we deserve all the best that the world has to offer, on a silver platter. But that's your generations fault. Your peers spoiled us. The key is patience, and a firm hand, and a prospectors eyes to find the nuggets. But just like in mining, you gotta get rid of the crud as fast as possible to get to the gold. So you go through ten employees in as many weeks until you find that perfect Prospect. That is not a bad thing. You begin to develop a reputation of excellence and the scrubs stop applying and the best want to work for you. Case in point, Steve Jobs: a tyrant who had Prospects lined up around his building for a chance to work for him.

No help is better than bad help.

I am new to the industry, just over a year in and climbing the whole time. I work hard and do my job so I can live my life. If you want a good climber that will move on a rope go put a job ad in your local rock climbing gym. Save time by getting someone who thinks 100ft up is privilege and not a chore. Age is not the issue I think your guy has an attitude problem and I'll bet cold hard cash his ol' man is the same way. Find someone with an open mind not experience or whatever they may claim they have.

I don't mean to bring back a dead topic but I'm with youngbuck and I think I've heard enough of back in my day stories. Trees have not changed and climbing is still climbing.

Originally Posted by reynog61

I am new to the industry, just over a year in and climbing the whole time. I work hard and do my job so I can live my life. If you want a good climber that will move on a rope go put a job ad in your local rock climbing gym. Save time by getting someone who thinks 100ft up is privilege and not a chore. Age is not the issue I think your guy has an attitude problem and I'll bet cold hard cash his ol' man is the same way. Find someone with an open mind not experience or whatever they may claim they have.

I don't mean to bring back a dead topic but I'm with youngbuck and I think I've heard enough of back in my day stories. Trees have not changed and climbing is still climbing.

yea we got one of those "rock climber" guys lol he sucks worst part is he thinks he's good. wont leave the trunk leaves stubs, dog ears, flush cuts and the pole saw is his best friend

Originally Posted by reynog61

I am new to the industry, just over a year in and climbing the whole time. I work hard and do my job so I can live my life. If you want a good climber that will move on a rope go put a job ad in your local rock climbing gym. Save time by getting someone who thinks 100ft up is privilege and not a chore. Age is not the issue I think your guy has an attitude problem and I'll bet cold hard cash his ol' man is the same way. Find someone with an open mind not experience or whatever they may claim they have.

I don't mean to bring back a dead topic but I'm with youngbuck and I think I've heard enough of back in my day stories. Trees have not changed and climbing is still climbing.

Some of those "back in the day stories" might teach you something. They might even save your butt.

They could even make you a better climber. Or not. Your choice entirely.

One thing about it, if you don't want to listen to anybody...pretty soon you won't have to.

Call me crazy but I love arrogance , I love to see real arrogant people shut down when they fail miserably , its just fun to watch .. As far as old heads well think about it thats all a lifer has are stories, memories and how they remember things ...

I will eat my words on the rock climber advice. I never said anything about not listening, I listen to everything I am told and read everything I can get my hands on to become better at my job. I hear a lot of what I do wrong that is not backed up by correctional instruction and I think that would get old fast for anyone. I have a lot to learn and will always have something to learn, but nothing good comes from insult and degradation. There are plenty of hard workers in the younger generation, you just have to find them.

Originally Posted by reynog61

I will eat my words on the rock climber advice. I never said anything about not listening, I listen to everything I am told and read everything I can get my hands on to become better at my job. I hear a lot of what I do wrong that is not backed up by correctional instruction and I think that would get old fast for anyone. I have a lot to learn and will always have something to learn, but nothing good comes from insult and degradation. There are plenty of hard workers in the younger generation, you just have to find them.

When I worked road construction, every move made was based on insult and degradation. Rode the pussies out of town real fast. Ahh, the good old days, lol.........

Originally Posted by Nailsbeats

When I worked road construction, every move made was based on insult and degradation. Rode the pussies out of town real fast. Ahh, the good old days, lol.........

Haha, some lines of work should be like that sometimes including this one. No sense in coddling someone along that doesn't have the heart or brains to do this kind of work.

I bust balls to see where a guy stands if he takes it and gives it ,good, if not, bye bye.

I don't know what it would be like to not have my balls broke daily , I mean I dish it out just fine and take it too , as far as young guys go , i like to have 1 around from time to time they usually are a hot mess and when they have a good sense of humor makes the day a bit more tolerable for sure

We use to ride new guys so bad, more then once a guy had left ready to cry, never to be seen again. I've work at places that by the end of the day I was telling my self, I'm not coming back in the morning. But I always did come back.
Most my time in this industry I have been the only white guy on a crew. I have been seen as an outsider by my co-workers and had to put up with a lot of sh_t. I learned to roll with the punches, and over time get accepted and respected.
I see other crews that I have worked with drive by and we all give each other the finger as a greeting. But were smiling while we do it.
I run across a lot of young climbers(that's anyone under 35) who have only worked for one or two places, and think their the sh_t, but in reality they're very limited in experience. Yet they think they know it all. I've yet to meet a climber of any age who'll say,"I don't really have much experience.
A little advice to you youngsters who think you know it all(or oldsters for that matter)Don't let a cocky, proud attitude prevent you from learning new things. I still learn from other people. I am not proud, if you have a technic that works better then what I'm doing, I'll give you props and start doing it too. Guys that think they know it all, don't grow or learn. You have to work at being good, just saying it, doesn't make it so.
If you don't continue to learn and grow throu out your life, you'll be that old know it all guy, one day, who really never grew beyond what he learned his first few years. Where you think all those tree toppers come from?

Been a long while since I lasted posted on this forum. I want to say after bashing the prices climbers / tree guys charged, my opinion, appreciation and respect has changed significantly. I recently hired some climbers to take down a couple of 129' "hazardous" cedar trees near my cabin. The team I hired were relatively young (24-30), but very experienced. The boss, a 30 year old, said he was a third generation climber and worked for his grandpa's logging outfit since he was 12. The others all had at least 10 years in the business and similar stories. They climbed and dropped those trees in less than a full day without a single incident. The trees trunks were about 16" from the cabin and overhung it's rooftop. I watched as they chunked them down and finally dropped the 40' plus sticks that were left, falling on top of the day-glow rags laid on the ground as drop points. Truly awesome work. The cutting, climbing and coordination of the team was simply amazing.

I got both trees dropped and mostly "bucked" into firewood sized pieces for the bargain price of $1400. Not a bad days work for 3 guys and certainly worth it for me. Bids were all over the place. Time to complete the task was a different story. All bidders (6 total) except one stated they could do all required in one full day. One guy, the oldest and not a climber, stated it would take his 4 man crew 4 days. The bid went to the youngest crew with the average price. I liked that I was dealing directly with the main climber for the estimate and not just a foreman/owner.

The amount of physical labor those guys expelled in that 8 hour day made me thank God I didn't chose tree work as my way to make / earn a living. Those guys never slowed down and only took a short lunch break. Helluva work ethic. Those young guys really impressed me.