DEDA lanyard with ART Positioners

**TheTreeSpyder** · 05-29-2003, 08:04 AM

Guess that shoe lace might work better than the piece of throwline i tried with extra lanyard tail support.

Am realy liking the extra long 22' long lanyard, don't tell ol'JP; but i kinda wish i did make it longer now, which would fit with Mike's suggestion of lower diameter/stashable line.

Instead of using a short lifeline today (that i keep around); i used the long lanyard instead.

i always carry a 3rd attatchment, a wide D karab and 4' sling mostly for redirects, but also have a Sherrill 'express sling on the karab for exteending bridge. Now the sling can add 4' extra to lanyard. Also, i choked/girthed it to D, and used karab to make like a short lanyard for 2x TieIns for 'legally' running saw.

Then, on some of the even lighter DW etc., no powersaw, gym shoes, but still earplugs in for peace as i played with handsaw/ pole saw.

So i guess i can downgrade short lifeline, and have less gear, as i just begin to explore this level that Big'Un been saying all along about longer lanyard. Guess even with those long legs, he's easier to catch up to here, than TD constantly running point on this path!

And........ is DEDA always on 1 side, not 1 adjuster on each hip?

**John Paul Sanborn** · 05-29-2003, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by TheTreeSpyder
And........ is DEDA always on 1 side, not 1 adjuster on each hip?

Well, he only cut one D-ring off....

**Tom Dunlap** · 05-29-2003, 03:11 PM

I can't see what advantage there would be to have a Positioner on each hip. Maybe I'm having another thick-headed moment again. Please explain.

So far, I haven't cut off the left D-ring. I'm pretty sure that I will though. The square MR is rated way above 5k# so I'm not worried about the regs. Since I didn't modify the saddle, just changed attachments no one should worry about it. It's no difference than using any other biner or MR to attach a lanyard to the saddle D-ring.

Tom

**TheTreeSpyder** · 05-29-2003, 04:42 PM

A few fellas around here that try to be safe use 2 fixed lanyards (these are the advanced guys....) 1 on each hip and no split tail, to sell them on 2 lanyards like that (lanyard and split tail). so they climb up to tie in, flipping lanyards and spiking, but any way kinda looks natural on the lanyards sometime.

Not my style. i made one of them a 19' lanyard with knut on each hip, girthed throwline scrap punched into center backpad, and a swivel line holder also on each side that he loves, for it uses that same style of feeding from both sides. Which besides carrying my saw on my left, and no synthetics; kinda seems better (or more familiar?) than both on 1 side. So figured i'd ask! Someone pointed out it was a DEDA, i really didn't know/had forgotten that that was an accronym for the function. But, any way this pattern of hanging from hip to hip, yields more length storage room in the loops behind legs if nothing else.

What is the minimal strength/diameter of line recomended and commanded for lanyard?

This is the pic i posted and the pattern of the line running behind the wearer to each D, to give adjustable length available to either side while having loops higher than most steps at full, and out of the way to the rear storage.

**rahtreelimbs** · 05-29-2003, 09:33 PM

Wasn't there a pic of Tom's original DEDA set-up using Distal hitches? Can anyone point me in the right direction?

**Tom Dunlap** · 05-30-2003, 05:03 AM

You have to go over to Tr**buzz and search on DEDA. Hillbilly made a nice graphic.

Tom

**Kneejerk Bombas** · 05-30-2003, 05:14 AM

Originally posted by Tom Dunlap
I can't see what advantage there would be to have a Positioner on each hip. Maybe I'm having another thick-headed moment again. Please explain.

Tom

Didn't you ever watch the old westerns? The gun slinger always had one gun on each hip, not two guns on one hip.
I wonder if there might be an advantage in situations where your all bunched up on one side, or turned to one side, and if the snap was out in the open on the other side it might save some digging.

I'm having a thick headed moment myself, figuring out why there would be an extra loop.

**Tom Dunlap** · 05-30-2003, 06:24 AM

here is why there are three loops:

Snap to #1 Postioner
#1 Positioner to #2 Positioner
#2 Positioner to snap

I'm going to look at looping the middle loop behind my back through a small ring. Tree Spyder gave me the idea.

Since I use a leg scabbard for my handsaw, my right side isn't really cluttered.

Tom

**Kneejerk Bombas** · 05-31-2003, 04:55 AM

TheTreeSpyder wrote on 05-31-2003 04:39 AM:
So what is your preference for Safe Strength/ Minimized Diameter-Weight?

Don't ever remember you directly saying as this has come up before......

Certainly, it must meet 5400 mbs. After that, any size goes in my book. I use my lanyard hard, so longevity is an issue. I don't want to be making a new one every few days, or working with one that has snags. The smaller the rope, the faster it wears. I tried some of the HMDP(kevlar type) unjacketed rope and it wore very poorly, that test(and the rope) lasted about two days.

I'm using a fly lanyard now and would not like it any thicker than that. There's a nice hank of 5/16" ultra tech floating around in my truck somewhere, I bet that would be sweet, although the thin jacket wouldn't last too long.

To keep these comments on topic, the ART positioners require a certain size rope, so not much choice there. They(mechanical devices) can be fussy about the type of rope too, is that right Tom?

**Tom Dunlap** · 05-31-2003, 05:21 AM

Mike points out a short coming of mechanicals. I'm using 7/16" static line for my lanyard now. It works fine with the Positioners. this rope has a 6k# breaking strength and a really tough shell. I don't mind having the barrel hitch tieing the snap to the rope. It would be nice to have a splice though. I've got a lot of this rope though. I used a Tibloc for one day and it chewed the sheath in a number of places so I retired both the rope and the Tibloc.

Yesterday I picked up some round, split collars that will clamp around the square MR. This will keep the Positioners in place and not flopping around. I'm going to see about putting one on each hip too. That's intriguing.

Tom

**rahtreelimbs** · 05-31-2003, 05:49 PM

Tom in what climbing positions do you find that the DEDA setup helps you the most?

**Tom Dunlap** · 05-31-2003, 07:54 PM

This afternoon I made some changes to my DEDA, thanks to some tips on this thread.

The plain end snap is still attached on my left, to the square MR. I found a split collar that clamps around the vertical leg to keep the Positioner at the top of the vertical leg. After the rope comes out I passed it around behind my back. The rope goes through a split ring like you use for keys which is attached to the waist of my saddle. then the rope goes to the right side. I took a delta link from one of my Ness saddles and looped it through the webbing on my Butterfly. The screw gate is on the bottom which keeps the P out at the end of the delta. The red snap is on that end of the lanyard. Red is Right.

I haven't climbed with the setup yet. After I rigged it I looped it over the tall posts on my fence and I think this is a huge improvement. If I wanted to I could add even more length to the lanyard because the loops are behind my back. Next week I'll be climbing on the setup and I'll post back.

The best place to use the DEDA is when ascending into excurrent trees or ones with a lot of limbs. This is an outgrowth of double lanyard climbing. I know that some climbers will use the end of their climbing line instead of a second lanyard but that doesn't fit my style of climbing.

The next place that the DEDA works is when the TIP keeps my climbing line at a flat angle. Then, all I count on the rope for is a descent. Less likely to use it for positioning. With the DEDA I can really fine tune my placements. When I prune I spend most of my time out in the ends of the limbs. Instead of setting up redirects, I use the lanyard for support. I still carry a small double sheave pulley for redis though.

As others have said, a long lanyard opens up a lot of different climbing and positioning situations.

The more I tweak the lanyard system the more I see how neglected this piece of kit has been in the development of technique.

Tom

**Kneejerk Bombas** · 06-01-2003, 03:48 AM

Originally posted by Tom Dunlap
I'm using 7/16" static line for my lanyard now. It works fine with the Positioners. this rope has a 6k# breaking strength and a really tough shell.
Tom

Do you know, off hand, the brand and/or the source of the rope?
When I saw the picture, my first thought was it looked pretty tough, I might like to get some.
Do you have trouble tieing knots with this static line at your rope snaps? Some static lines don't bend too well.