Ford 555B backhoe ignition problem

[Teddy.Scout]

Went to use the backhoe and noticed the lower panel(panel below the steering wheel was removed) The old man was using it to grab stumps this fall and think he was working on the ignition as it feels sloppy. Also the thread nut to the ignition was stripped and turning the key was difficult(as if you had to turn it 3/4 more then previously). I never had a problem with it and can only assume what he was doing to it??? I am trying to make sense of the starter wire diagram. looks as if I have 5 wires.
-positive to positive leads
-looks to be a councel light to positive connection
and a third I am un able to ID
I want to locate the problem but need to at least get it to the barn were it is warm!!!!! (freaking cold out)

Can I go direct with the ignition to start it or am I wrong as to the leads to the starter. Either way I need to put it under cover for the winter as it has already been out for 2 months.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated!

 

[Walt41]

Third wire Usually goes to the glow plug heat setup on most tractors.

 

[Teddy.Scout]

Thanks Walt!
There is a glow plug button, and no pre-mid turn position in the ignition that I have seen in our other tractors. I get no voltage reading from any thing other the then 2 positive in leads. I am assuming that the switch went bad on the old man and he started to replace it! I will probably find a switch some were if that is the case. But now I am starting with it as it sits. Can I run a jumper to the starter to crank it over. But even then, will it stay running or do both positive leads need to be hard wired in order to keep it running?

Again thanks! It will be a heck a lot easier in heat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dk27]

Hey Teddy
have a 655D, not sure if it sure if it is the same set up that you have.If You do get it started ,will You be able to shut it down?Some thing has to kill the power to the fuel shut off soleniod?Guess You could close a valve on the fuel line or try to block off the air intake.Good luck.

 

[komatsuvarna]

If Im not wrong, power turns the fuel solenoid on, and its off when there is no power to it. Take a bungie cord or something and move the fuel solenoid to the run position and start it by crossing the starter solenoid out. when you get ready to turn it off, just unhook what ever you got rigged up to hold the fuel solenoid on. Should work.

 

[Teddy.Scout]

Hey Teddy
have a 655D, not sure if it sure if it is the same set up that you have.If You do get it started ,will You be able to shut it down?Some thing has to kill the power to the fuel shut off soleniod?Guess You could close a valve on the fuel line or try to block off the air intake.Good luck.

If Im not wrong, power turns the fuel solenoid on, and its off when there is no power to it. Take a bungie cord or something and move the fuel solenoid to the run position and start it by crossing the starter solenoid out. when you get ready to turn it off, just unhook what ever you got rigged up to hold the fuel solenoid on. Should work.

This is what I needed to hear!!!
I will try first thing day break and let you guys know how it went!
Many thanks and nothing beats a heated shop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Teddy.Scout]

All right!
Here is were I am AND ANY HELP OR ADVICE WOULD BE APPRECIATED!

-Jumped the terminals (bypassed leads to the starter to atleast turn over engine)
-starter bendix is shot (removed and tested to confirm it was shot, it spins but won't engage). That was a pain to get the starter off! Every thing was ASE except the solenoid, freakin metric
Have a new starter coming later today.

Still will have to deal with bypassing the ignition to start. (I just want to start it and limp it to the barn.)
I have not located the fuel solenoid to keep it engaged once I get it to crank.

 

[komatsuvarna]

It should be on one side of the motor and I cant remember which side. I havent messed with that series in a while. Should be on the injection pump stuff. A little arm about 3 inchs or so long with a rod in it hooking it to the solenoid. Should be real close to were the throttle cable hooks up.

Some of the early models didnt have the electric solenoid to shut off. The throttle lever was used to kill the machine.

Sorry if Im confussing and hope it helps.

 

[Walt41]

Follow the foot throttle linkage and you will find it.

 

[dk27]

My machine is a 1992.It is located on the right side of the engine.It has two maybe 14 gauge wires attached to it. near the injector/fuel lines(no diesel mechanic here) area.Can't remember how it mounted,think it was just a bolt or two.To much Ho,Ho,Ho, stuff going on right now to check.But as someone stated it is relatively small like a big cigar.A portion of it is internal, though.

 

[Teddy.Scout]

It should be on one side of the motor and I cant remember which side. I havent messed with that series in a while. Should be on the injection pump stuff. A little arm about 3 inchs or so long with a rod in it hooking it to the solenoid. Should be real close to were the throttle cable hooks up.

Some of the early models didnt have the electric solenoid to shut off. The throttle lever was used to kill the machine.

Sorry if Im confussing and hope it helps.

It does make sense!
An I found it, it is just a little solenoid prong!!!!

Follow the foot throttle linkage and you will find it.

Right were you guys said!
The tracing the linkage is the key!
The manual shows parts and matching diagrams that still doesn't show were EXACTLY!!!!!!!


THANKS GUYS!!!!!!


UPDATE from this morning!
Found the manual (freakin thing is huge!) last night.
Ordered (had over-night) delivery of a NEW starter and ignition key this morning. Both parts will be here by 10am. Looks like there is hope!!!!
From what little bit I was able to decipher from the manual
-It is a 555B
-Early model
-has a fuel shut off switch located on the injector body

I will get some pics once I get it to the barn!
It is a pain to carry all the tools (which I always forget the ones I need) down back by the sugar shack and remember a camera.

 

[Teddy.Scout]

My machine is a 1992.It is located on the right side of the engine.It has two maybe 14 gauge wires attached to it. near the injector/fuel lines(no diesel mechanic here) area.Can't remember how it mounted,think it was just a bolt or two.To much Ho,Ho,Ho, stuff going on right now to check.But as someone stated it is relatively small like a big cigar.A portion of it is internal, though.

Any help right now is MORE THEN APPRECIATED!!!!
Found a picture of one on eBay to give me some idea.
And it is as you guys mentioned a 3-4 inch spark plug looking gadget, with a single 14-16 gauge wire off the top. I was looking for a large starter type thing to begin with.

 

[NHtech]

first thing BECARFUL JUMPING THE STARTER THE THING COULD RUN YOU OVER

the injection pump should be on the rightside front of engine and depending on weither it is an inline or rotary pump if it is an inline the steele lines will be in a strait line on top of pump it should have the shut off you can phiscaly pull up on and get it to run don't put battery voltage the this solonoid because you put 12vots the wrong wire it will cook it in a hurry if the lines are on the back side of pump in a sort of circle it is a rotary in witch case there will be one wire running to what looks like a tempture sensor just jump a wire from the batt to and them take wire off to shutdown dont try to shut off fuel supply or we will be going through the steps to get air out of injection line

hope i wasnt to confusing

 

[komatsuvarna]

dont try to shut off fuel supply or we will be going through the steps to get air out of injection line

hope i wasnt to confusing

Care to explain??

Thats how all diesels are shut off. Even with the electric solenoid, it shuts off fuel.

 

[NHtech]

sorry someone said to shut fuel off at the tank or try and plug air cleaner i thought mabey that was a bad idea if you have ever ran a diesel out of fuel it can be a pain to get all of the air out

 

[komatsuvarna]

sorry someone said to shut fuel off at the tank or try and plug air cleaner i thought mabey that was a bad idea if you have ever ran a diesel out of fuel it can be a pain to get all of the air out

Im with ya now. Yeah, Ive ran a few out of fuel before and its no fun. Some isnt to bad, but some are a pita to get blead out.

 

[Teddy.Scout]

first thing BECARFUL JUMPING THE STARTER THE THING COULD RUN YOU OVER

the injection pump should be on the rightside front of engine and depending on weither it is an inline or rotary pump if it is an inline the steele lines will be in a strait line on top of pump it should have the shut off you can phiscaly pull up on and get it to run don't put battery voltage the this solonoid because you put 12vots the wrong wire it will cook it in a hurry if the lines are on the back side of pump in a sort of circle it is a rotary in witch case there will be one wire running to what looks like a tempture sensor just jump a wire from the batt to and them take wire off to shutdown dont try to shut off fuel supply or we will be going through the steps to get air out of injection line

hope i wasnt to confusing

No, not confusing at all!
Bad news, I had to remove (well it was the only way I could figure out) the injector set-up to remove the starter. I SHOULD(cross my fingers) be good on bleeding the lines and getting it primed as from past horrible experience will my little old beat-up (l235)kubota tractor. I did not want to but for the life of me, couldn't figure out how to remove the starter with out doing it. I will have to post pics now to show you guys! If I am wrong, well this is were the pics will be handy. I do need and want to learn so please bear with me. I have new found respect for over the road diesel mech., nothing beats a heated barn! I am cautious to the starting it and making sure of being clear. The hoe is full expelled out and out riggers are completely out. If the thing was all up I would borrow a neighbors tractor and tow it, so the need to get the baby starter is a must. Probably have to let it run for a good 20 minutes to get the fluid warmed up.
Man I bet the old man is laughing at me now! LOL! Freaking cold and now all my carhartts smell like diesel! LOL!!!! But I guess all novice mechs. have there smelly starts.

 

[dk27]

diesel out of fuel it can be a pain to get all of the air out

Yup
go thru that every time You change fuel filters

 

[dk27]

all my carhartts smell like diesel

I keep one pair of junk coveralls for working on the hoe,that live in one of the tractor stalls.

 

[NHtech]

i am realy hoping you removed the lift pump and not the injection pump (the thing with steel lines running to the head) as if ya took injection pump off this could open a whole new can of worms lol

the best way to bleed system is use push botton or hand pump to get fuel to the injection pump (just pump it till it gets tight ) try to start if it doesnt take off then youll need to slightly open the steel fuel lines at the top of the head and crank the starter till fuel squirts out of them them tighten the back up and it should run