Band saw mill wheel size

[radroy92]

He everybody,

I'm making plans for a homebuilt band saw mill. I called a band saw blade place to get some info on blade speeds and prices and the guy there mentioned that my 15" wheel size is way too small. A 1" blade needs a 36" wheel (I was told) or the blade will develope cracks and prematurely break.

I have done my Web searches and watched way too many Youtube videos and it seems nobody is using a wheel this large.

So what does small wheel size really mean to us? I'm thinking we will most likely dull the blade way before it breaks.

Also what are our options for sharpening our blades, worth it, useless, just buy a new blade???

Thanks, Roy

 

[MHouse1028]

huh thats a big wheel i had a turner mill and it didnt have nearly that big of wheels it used trailer rims and tires 20" od w/1.25"blades and never had any trouble...plus i cant imagine what it would cost having 36" band wheels made..anyhow theres lots of options out there..hope this helps

 

[Can8ianTimber]

Sounds like you talked to someone in the heavy production milling industry. They usually don't understand what we do. I can't imagin you would need wheels that size. I would resurch other portable mill manufacturers and see what size they use and go according to that. My guess would be 18" - 24".

Check out these guys. They have some nice small wheels:msp_thumbsup:
Premier Bandwheel & Equipment Ltd.

 

[radroy92]

big wheels

Yes, I saw plenty of mills with trailer wheels, small car wheels and a few using 14 inch bands saw wheels. I saw a couple of mills where they made wooden wheels and one used a bicycle inner tube (split open) for the tire on the wooden wheels. I also read on here that the rubber trailer/car tires may have a cushioning effect that helps the blade not crack.

Any way he did say I'd be best off with a carbon steel felx back blade. They are pretty cheep at ~$20 for a 150 inch x 1 wide blade.

So it seems very do-able and it seems to be working a lot.

Roy

 

[chaikwa]

18.75" pulleys from Surplus Center, (Surplus Center - 18.75 O.D. H-BUSHING SINGLE GROOVE PULLEY), and a 'B' series belt that will fit TIGHTLY over the pulley, (usually have to boil the belt and pry it on), for the band blade to ride on. The belts provide a nice crowned surface for the blade to track properly on. If you can find poly belts instead of rubber, the sawdust won't stick to them, altho I've been using rubber since I built my mill 3 years ago with no issues. Woodmizer uses loose rubber belts and I've even seen a mill that uses the same belt that drives the mill to track the blade on one of the 18.75" pulleys.

Use a 14" similar pulley on one of the shafts the 18.75" pulley is mounted on in order to drive them both.

Use no less than a 13 HP gas motor with a centrifugal clutch so you can stop the blade without shutting off the engine, (4", belt drive clutch should run around $175 or so).

1 1/4" X 7/8" Lenox blade should do you good to start with. They're a good all around blade. Usually sold by the inch as they're all different lengths. Mine are 153" and I pay between 15 and 20 bucks each depending on where I get them. Also, the 1 1/4" blades are easy to sharpen and set with minimal cost so you don't have to spend 7 to 10 bucks everytime you need them sharpened.

I wouldn't mess with car tires/wheels, altho I know people who swear by them. Just seems like a shaky set-up to me, especially after all the work you'll put into building a mill. My theory is do it right and do it once.

This is pretty much what my mill is comprised of and it runs very well, never have broken a blade unless I saw into something I wasn't expecting... like steel.

If I can help further, let me know!

 

[chads]

It's not the width but the thickness of the blade that will determine what size wheel it is compatable with .
A thinner blade runs on a smaller wheel.
Also the wider the blade the more tension you will need.
So a 1/2" width balde will take half the tension a 1" blade takes to make it track the same.

You multiply the width x depth of cut and get #per Sq inch when it comes to force required to keep blade straight.

Think of a seat belt and thin wire which one takes less tension to dig into something.
Good luck on your build.
Chad

 

[Burlhunter13]

I run 1 1/4" blades 158" on 18.75" pullys. Works out nice, Never had tracking issues.....except for when putting a new blade on now and then. run a few passes and then re-tension the blade because they tend to stretch just a bit when they are first put on. After the re-tension I'm golden till she's dull. It has a screw/bolt-tension set up......at about 35-40 lbs with a torque wrench.

If you looking to build your own mill then take a peek at this site.....might give you some helpful ideas or parts you can use.

Portable Sawmill Parts,

(you can even purchase their plans to build your own) I might post pictures soon of mine and the alterations made.


Hopefully I can upgrade to the hydrolic tension soon......money......

 

[CooksSaw]

Roy,

This article is worth a read How to Choose the Right Bandwheel Size

James Osmond
Cook's Saw Mfg.

 

[snake_2586]

My workshop band saw only has 17" wheels, and a 1" band lives on that, never had any problems with cracks.

 

[chaikwa]

Roy,

This article is worth a read How to Choose the Right Bandwheel Size

James Osmond
Cook's Saw Mfg.

That IS a good read, thanks for posting!

 

[redheadwoodshed]

18.75" pulleys from Surplus Center, (Surplus Center - 18.75 O.D. H-BUSHING SINGLE GROOVE PULLEY), and a 'B' series belt that will fit TIGHTLY over the pulley, (usually have to boil the belt and pry it on), for the band blade to ride on. The belts provide a nice crowned surface for the blade to track properly on. If you can find poly belts instead of rubber, the sawdust won't stick to them, altho I've been using rubber since I built my mill 3 years ago with no issues. Woodmizer uses loose rubber belts and I've even seen a mill that uses the same belt that drives the mill to track the blade on one of the 18.75" pulleys.

Use a 14" similar pulley on one of the shafts the 18.75" pulley is mounted on in order to drive them both.

Use no less than a 13 HP gas motor with a centrifugal clutch so you can stop the blade without shutting off the engine, (4", belt drive clutch should run around $175 or so).

1 1/4" X 7/8" Lenox blade should do you good to start with. They're a good all around blade. Usually sold by the inch as they're all different lengths. Mine are 153" and I pay between 15 and 20 bucks each depending on where I get them. Also, the 1 1/4" blades are easy to sharpen and set with minimal cost so you don't have to spend 7 to 10 bucks everytime you need them sharpened.

I wouldn't mess with car tires/wheels, altho I know people who swear by them. Just seems like a shaky set-up to me, especially after all the work you'll put into building a mill. My theory is do it right and do it once.

This is pretty much what my mill is comprised of and it runs very well, never have broken a blade unless I saw into something I wasn't expecting... like steel.

If I can help further, let me know!

There it is! I looked all over surplus center last night and that did not come up.Thanks!

 

[Old Hilly]

The saw that my neighbour and I built uses 26" cast iron, trued and balanced bandsaw wheels. Expensive? Yes. But it made the construction pretty simple.View attachment 254452

 

[redheadwoodshed]

The saw that my neighbour and I built uses 26" cast iron, trued and balanced bandsaw wheels. Expensive? Yes. But it made the construction pretty simple.View attachment 254452

Not a bad looking set up.I see the blade roller guide is mounted below the blade.I see them mostly above the blade.Does it make a difference?

 

[osagehunter]

Chaikwa, I would like to proceed pretty much with the approach you took - surpluscenter.com parts. So if I DO use the
18.75" wheels with the H split bushing, and about a 14" drive wheel or thereabouts, and with a centrifugal clutch, should
I worry about the engine's shaft size or will I design a part that couples the engine's shaft diameter to the clutch/bushing.

Also, many of the 13 hp engines have about a 1" shaft diameter but some engines seem to have shafts much bigger - over
2"? I would like about a 20hp engine (I know this costs more), but I may find a used one. But is it better to have
a larger shaft? I guess I would need a bushing if the diams don't match - these are
usually pretty cheap. Just curious.

 

[Mike Van]

A little late on this thread, but here's some more info I've learned - It's not the width of band blades with smaller wheels, it's more the thickness. I run .042 blades on 24" wheels, I haven't had a broken blade in years. If I went to the .056 that some run today, my results wouldn't be as good. After trying [over 20 years at this] Most every blade out there, I settled on Simonds Red Streaks from Cooks. I also use their sharpener & setter. A sharp properly set blade is priceless. The lose v belt fit that some makers use on bandwheels doesn't help blade life, but it works. If you use them, with 1 1/4" blades, you need the 2 groove. Many 20 hp gas engines use 1 to 1 1/8 shafts, no need to go bigger. Figure out your blade speed in FPM depending on what size wheels you use, this is important, driving a band too fast doesn't make it saw faster/better.

 

[osagehunter]

Thanks Mike, I am early in this design. I may design an engager or I may use a centrifugal clutch - don't know yet. I like the idea of a big bar that I pull on to engage the motor's pulley against the belt or some weird thing like that. I'm not as thrilled by a centrifugal clutch design - we'll see how this goes. I would also like an extra little wheel as a belt-tensioner. I might even go for a two-speed system like a home band-saw - so this would need 2 pulleys. I would also like to mount my drive wheel or idler wheel (one of them) on a little bolted shift thing that allows me to keep them aligned so the blade alignment can be tuned. I know this all sounds fancy but I don't mind playing around a little before I start building.
I now realize I need to think about torque vs. speed and err on the side of torque (like what it takes to get a log up a hill). We want the blade to have enough gumption driving it so that it doesn't bog down and cause heating by friction I guess. We want a nice smoothly moving system that doesn't peter out.
Your comments also underscore how important the blade teeth and all are - or at least that they impact our sawmill's performance in some way. It's funny, I used to saw with a worn out hand-saw whenever I wanted a real straight cut because the duller the teeth, the less wandering the saw would do - I could cut a piece of plywood 48" long as straight as a laser-guided circular saw could do it - only problem is - when I got done sawing the plywood - I was so tired I left the saw outside and went to bed - someone walked off with my saw. Now I only have new saws - which stinks!
Thanks for your comments - I need the experiential point of view but I'm not worried - this should be fun!

 

[Dave Boyt]

My Norwood has 19" bandwheels. In three years, one broken blade at the weld. I use Norwood's sharpening & setting system, and it works very well. I am absolutely sold on the centrifugal clutch. Very positive & reliable. I'd recommend blade alignment (tracking) on both band wheels, since there can be some variation from one blade to another, and even as a blade gets narrower from sharpening. What will you do about blade guides?

 

[osagehunter]

So far I've heard good things about the Woodmiser guides in your Norwood MX34 - I might just go with that. I don't know -
Cook's has a whole system that's 8-way adjustable. I'm not sure I need a "pinch" style roller system - I may just use a "push-down"
roller. One thing fore dang sure: I haven't yet made this decision. Right now I'm thinking about the main track - I want to go
to a junkyard and see if they have anything before I buy any steel. I'm not cheap or anything but I suspect I can get some
parts used. But my biggest decision now is the track - I was thinking of having it double as a gatelock in front of my driveway - when I'm not using the saw, I would turn the track sideways and lock the gate area with it - for security. Then when I move my car I will lock the garage with the same thing. I have about 21' of length to cover so I might make my track about that long. So I will need to pick this thing up! But I'm good at walking logs around my yard - heavy ones! So I need to err on the side of high strength to weight ratio in my track. It can't weigh more than about 3 or 4 hundred pounds I would guess. On the other hand, I might just use it
to lock the garage (behind my car). I could do this whole thing in my garage but I wonder about the fumes it produces from
the gas engine - perhaps I could sub an electric for inside the garage. Not hard to tell I have a ways to go with this thing. I may
have to make the track in 2 parts so it can be disassembled when I want to put my car in the garage. But if it's light enough, I can just
lift it and put it on the other side from my car if I want to store it while I take my car out. The car is just an issue I need
to confront right away since this will be the first winter I garage-keep my car - finally cleaned the garage out enough to do it!
Otherwise, my car gets frozen into the driveway and I can't drive after winter storms. Even the barn doors to the garage
get frozen shut, then I need to replace the tracks sometimes. I need to sledgehammer ice away from the doors - then the
neighbors misunderstand my sledgehammering and think I'm just making noise - not realizing that I was swinging a sledgehammer
for 2 days to break up 8" thick of ice over 800 square feet - that's a lot of ice! It's ok though - I DO have some money
to put into this thing - I'm not broke or anything - I don't need to build an el cheapo. I just have to get started on this by this
weekend. Thanks.

 

[osagehunter]

Well, I've decided to start lining up parts for this thing. I looked at casters from 3 sources: King's, SurplusCenter (pulley-style), Cook's, and Service Caster. The prices vary from about 9.00 to 47.00 (good to 2000 lbs.). I will probably go with Service Caster - they have a $23.00 part that's made of Cast Iron and works well enough for rooftop (I want to rooftop the angle iron for my tracks, knowing that this will be harder to push - no matter, I'm built like a small fullback). So I just need to choose the bearing size - 1/2", 5/8", or 3/4". The bolt size will be 1/2" so it will get a bushing for the 5/8" and 3/4" bearings. This caster has an 800 lb. capacity (more than enough). I want the Cast Iron as it involves less nickel dust. I will be doing this right next to my garden and I don't want little dust (other than iron - good for spinach) in my garden. I've never had spinach with nickel in it - might be tasty while it kills you. I guess I'll buy 4 grade 8 steel bolts for the thing so they don't bend too much.

So hey, I got a little bit of a start to this thing, albeit slow! I may go with the Surplus Center pulleys.

So I need to work on the pulleys and the guides next.
Enjoy.

 

[osagehunter]

My casters have arrived - they are roller bearing with a grease zerk - they are very heavy-duty and nice-looking. I started
scrounging for some metal pipe for the track and I have to wait and ask a guy if I can go on his property and offer
him some money. They are 4" x 1 1/2" with 600 lb. load capacity, red in color. I only went with 1/2" diameter
bearings - I suspect some would say, why not 5/8" or 3/4"? I guess I'll just have to try the 1/2" - if they last a year
or two, I can always drill bigger holes and put bigger bolts in. They cost 124.xx for 4 (with shipping). Now I need
to gather some tubing and the angle iron for the tracks and also build a frame for a motor and I need to order
the pulleys. Here's a link to the casters (the red ones):
http://www.servicecaster.com/v-groove-wheels.php

Unfortunately, I am in the middle of building a gazebo and a heavy-duty dolly from golf cart wheels so this project
has gotten short shrift - I am not used to metalworking either so it will be slow going. The heavy-duty dolly is
coming along and it will help me in my sawmill as there are similar concepts - like bearings, pillow-blocks, hubs, axles, etc..