CapitaineHaddoc
European Westcoaster
Really bad. And stupid.
Are you kidding me ??? Definately what NOT to do !!
- Thread starter Moparmyway
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Really bad. And stupid.
As most know, I am no pro but it shouldn't take a pro to recognize that Mr. Keller's methods are extremely dangerous whether it be his freeing a stuck chain on a running saw with his hands (see posted video), his ring around the rosy no face no wedge falling (see almost any of his videos. including the one posted yesterday - ) ,
or when the tree doesn't fall, making another cut while standing in his intended falling path ( ).
Yes, he is getting the job done without barber chairing and fiber pull. Yes, he seems to be deft with the saw. And, yes, he seems to be fairly good at reading the tree if the general lack of stuck saws and his bar condition shown his videos is representative of his cutting. But he encounters needless risks. Does this mean he is not a pro - No, if you define a pro as one who makes his living at the task. Yes, if you define a pro as someone who uses the best/safest methods. I don't know, if efficiency or production is the measure of a pro. I am sure there are those here who can make that call. He seems to give no thought to lay, but maybe in his environment a good lay is secondary to maximum wood preservation.
This pro versus no pro debate of his style cutting reminds me of our Revolutionary War, the King's men were professional soldiers but their tactics were out of date. Despite their experience, provisions and many early successes, they lost the war fighting the way they had always fought. We would be drinking a lot more tea, if our rag tagged soldiers had stood in formation against the British. To me it doesn't matter how long the methods Mr. Keller uses have been employed, they could be improved. If not, sooner or later for someone a needless price will be paid.
Should he get credit for his "don't do this at home" disclaimer? Not in my opinion. If he took the effort to point out the specific dangers of his methods, I might have a different opinion but he didn't.
Ron
or when the tree doesn't fall, making another cut while standing in his intended falling path ( ).
Yes, he is getting the job done without barber chairing and fiber pull. Yes, he seems to be deft with the saw. And, yes, he seems to be fairly good at reading the tree if the general lack of stuck saws and his bar condition shown his videos is representative of his cutting. But he encounters needless risks. Does this mean he is not a pro - No, if you define a pro as one who makes his living at the task. Yes, if you define a pro as someone who uses the best/safest methods. I don't know, if efficiency or production is the measure of a pro. I am sure there are those here who can make that call. He seems to give no thought to lay, but maybe in his environment a good lay is secondary to maximum wood preservation.
This pro versus no pro debate of his style cutting reminds me of our Revolutionary War, the King's men were professional soldiers but their tactics were out of date. Despite their experience, provisions and many early successes, they lost the war fighting the way they had always fought. We would be drinking a lot more tea, if our rag tagged soldiers had stood in formation against the British. To me it doesn't matter how long the methods Mr. Keller uses have been employed, they could be improved. If not, sooner or later for someone a needless price will be paid.
Should he get credit for his "don't do this at home" disclaimer? Not in my opinion. If he took the effort to point out the specific dangers of his methods, I might have a different opinion but he didn't.
Ron
Moparmyway
Its just a saw
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That video is GREAT !! The tree fell in a direction about 60 Degrees off from the notch 
jughead500
Sasquatch
Apparently he likes turtles too.
OK
He is stupid cutting with wrong method but advice the others to dont do this i dont know many stupids to can advice
He want to suicide and find that the best way is cutting trees with wrong methods, sorry no bad trees here
He dont have go to school so he can not read the safety falling methods that the books writte
He is the only logger in the world so he dont have some other logger for asking different opinions- advices
He can not use the you-tube for see safety methods. someone else put videos without he know
Now lets say that he is newbie
If he is newbie he just make excactly what the books-manuals writte - reason because all the newbies have fear and do what the manual say, until they have a little experience, so if he is newbie we see facecuts, hinges, e.t.c , e.t.c its the psychologic fear that all we have when do something for first time.
You see any fear here ??? i dont
Now lets say for techniques
We can driving our cars ok many of us are good drivers, but if we try to driving like the rally -F1 drivers and use theirs techniques maybe this cost our lifes, but they do without problem every day , just because they know how to use theese special techniques that we dont know.
or if you want the circus acrobats, the timbersports loggers , the world records peoples , they know and use special techniques and of course training, that many of us dont.
so is no good to say that someone is stupid because he can do something that many of us can not, just because we dont know the technique , or because dont have much training like him.
And finally the logger have video on you-tube why you dont ask him hey man why you cut wrong to listen and his opinion.
He is stupid cutting with wrong method but advice the others to dont do this i dont know many stupids to can advice
He want to suicide and find that the best way is cutting trees with wrong methods, sorry no bad trees here
He dont have go to school so he can not read the safety falling methods that the books writte
He is the only logger in the world so he dont have some other logger for asking different opinions- advices
He can not use the you-tube for see safety methods. someone else put videos without he know
Now lets say that he is newbie
If he is newbie he just make excactly what the books-manuals writte - reason because all the newbies have fear and do what the manual say, until they have a little experience, so if he is newbie we see facecuts, hinges, e.t.c , e.t.c its the psychologic fear that all we have when do something for first time.
You see any fear here ??? i dont
Now lets say for techniques
We can driving our cars ok many of us are good drivers, but if we try to driving like the rally -F1 drivers and use theirs techniques maybe this cost our lifes, but they do without problem every day , just because they know how to use theese special techniques that we dont know.
or if you want the circus acrobats, the timbersports loggers , the world records peoples , they know and use special techniques and of course training, that many of us dont.
so is no good to say that someone is stupid because he can do something that many of us can not, just because we dont know the technique , or because dont have much training like him.
And finally the logger have video on you-tube why you dont ask him hey man why you cut wrong to listen and his opinion.
This is a good video to show people what not to do.
I bet that many of here that tell him stupid have allready test this technique....................
I tried to post a comment on YouTube inviting him to this discussion but I couldn't get it to go through. Maybe someone who understands how to comment there can invite him. Ron
rdtreewalker
arboristsite window licker
That video is GREAT !! The tree fell in a direction about 60 Degrees off from the notch
There's plenty of people who do that on purpose. Dropping a tree through a window requires creativity sometimes. Tree may have needed the top to go 5 feet right to keep from snagging in another top.
Thats good friend , i try , to do this , i really want to listen what he say and his explainations.
Not this tree. And, yes, nobody bats 1.000. Ron
Moparmyway
Its just a saw
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Then why insert the caption "good thing its a clear cut" ??
Funny watching who is defending this guy and how they try just about anything to reason his "technique" .
I still want to know the difference between the hillside jump cut and the swing jump cut. I asked in post 46 and post 61. Maybe you can put your creativity to work for a few minutes and enlighten me ?
I placed the link for the post with both videos below for ya
http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...ely-what-not-to-do.274001/page-4#post-5232030
Youtube is NOT the place to learn how to fell a tree.
CapitaineHaddoc
European Westcoaster
Thank you very much, I was convinced that this is how people learn
It does not mean there will not be a fool to try to reproduce what he saw. Especially when the guy on the vid say "don't try it, we are loggers".
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I hope I never get that good.
Just to lighten things up a little, here's one of my favorite "don't be this guy" videos.
The guy makes a lot of mistakes but at least he's not claiming to be a logger.
How many mistakes can you find? I see at least eight.
The guy makes a lot of mistakes but at least he's not claiming to be a logger.
How many mistakes can you find? I see at least eight.
There are already comments on his falling methods in the comments section for at least one of his videos. His response was about what you expect from someone that has spent a great deal of time doing the job wrong. With plenty of people defending him
CapitaineHaddoc
European Westcoaster
You can't argue with stupid.
Especially in this business, people are often proud and refuse criticism. In general, those who refuse criticism and think they know everything are the worst.
Moparmyway
Its just a saw
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Moparmyway
Its just a saw
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Yup, we got that here too
