Wire gate carabiners?

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ScottinAK

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What's the deal with wire gate carabiners? They seem wicked unsafe. I know they have the average kn rating but what about the gate unintentionally opening? I've read 3 different articles on them and not 1 mentions the hazard. What's your opinion?
 
Any spring gate biner can open if the rope gets twisted, opened by a branch. Rock climbers use them all the time on their belay systems.

Any biner in your life support system should be triple action. Having said that, I have several wire gate biners that I use for non-critical uses. They are almost as cheap as the key chain biners and are much stronger.
 
I have a few triple action but I prefer the screw lock. I could see a wire gate to hold lanyards and what not, but then it only has 1 purpose.
 
Screw locks are not to used in life support situations either. The lock can spin out. Only triple action (ball or lift and twist) should be used on life support. This means lanyards as well.

I use wire gates for light rigging, hauling up equipment, setting up 3:1 (5:1). A lot of guys will use their older triple actions for these jobs, but as an employee I only get so much equipment issued and the rest I have to buy on my own.
 
I don't doubt you or your reasoning but is the triple action an ANSI standard or just a rule of thumb?
 
A chain is as strong as the weakest link.
Carry load on solid leg of carabiner, see carabiner as a hook(not to be tip loaded); gate is just mousing.
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Gate side, can have same material or wire gate and be about as strong.
Gate is pulled inline-axis, but the hinge pin holding gate is pulled cross-axis(leveraged angle) and smaller metal.
Gate pin is weakest link not gate, gate pin defines strength of gate side of carabiner.
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So gate of full strength, becomes extra weight for it's purpose; pin would fail first.
If make wire gate, that pin still fails first on/no gate deformity, carabiner would be as strong as solid gate, only lighter.
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Snagging, usability etc. different matters.
Would only use wire gate for rigging.
Having at least one steel carabiner for throw weight is always a good idea!
 
Wire gate carabiners used for protection in rock climbing are part of a highly redundant system... protection is placed by the lead climber in a manner to allow minimal drop in the event that one or more fail. A lot of highly dynamic rope in the system ensures shock loading is minimized. Used correctly, this is acceptable for sport climbing... but an arborist doesn't work this way. We're not hanging by our fingertips and one big toe, trying to put a rope through a 'biner. If, starting at your TIP, you placed a canopy anchor every few feet going to many branches and down the trunk all the way to the ground, and half of your SRT line went through them all to a basal tie, then you could probably get by with wiregate carabiners. That's not realistic, of course.

The biggest danger with screwgate carabiners is not contact with the tree opening them.. or running rope going through the 'biner unscrewing them... it's you forgetting to screw the lock barrel tight! The first autolocking carabiners were designed to address this. Since then, double and triple action 'biners were further attempts to increase safety by minimizing the chances of the gate opening due to interaction with objects and with any rope running through the 'biner. Oddly enough, you can open most of them quite easily with a 2' piece of rope if you have someone hold the carabiner (gate facing upward). It seems that running rope outside of the 'biner that comes in contact with the gate presents the biggest chance of opening it. Of course, the 'biner would have to jump out of whatever it was hooked to at the same instant. This would seem to be unlikely, and most accidents aren't from the carabiner failing... they're from careless or improper usage. Climbers who rely solely on the sound of the carabiner or snap on their lanyard clicking into place on their side D rings are really at risk. You really should look at it to make sure that it's actually on there. It's a horribly easy thing to think it went home, only to get that sick feeling a moment later as you fall backwards out of the tree.
 
I was on a job years ago where a climber tried to repel using a screw gate biner. the rope unscrewed the gate it popped open loseing his wraps, though still around the half in. rope. He held on for a little bit then fell 60 ft . amazedly he didn't get hurt except for some wicked rope burns on his hands.
I use a wire gate on my RADs system to hold my foot strap to the ascender. Thats it.
 
I have a couple screw gates I use, I have them tightened with pliers, they are not going to inadvertently open. I think the real problem with screw gates is forgetting to lock them. I think wire gates used in any capacity is simply not worth it. Something is going to get snagged on that stupid thing even if its just for a key chain.
 
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