Echo CS-620 or Dolmar PS-6400
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CoreyB
Addicted to ArboristSite
This is back on topic. The 6400 is a good saw and the 620 is a proven saw as well. What does the best dealer carry? That to me would be as much of a buying point as weight or fuel economy.
cus_deluxe
Commie Satan turd
go buy 3 used husky 55's for the same price as either 
I agree. We see differently thinks, that is o.k. .......
But how I see, the 6100 never ever will as popular like the 562xp and doesn't matter any fuel save thinks!
In my country the main reason is the poor service network of Makita and the really high parts prices! I don't know how the
system goes in other countries, but in Hungary the whole system is really slow,expensive .....shameful....unfortunately!
That's way the professoinals turn their backs to Dolmar in many case.
SawTroll
Information Collector
It is a misunderstanding that an inboard clutch is better than an outboard for noodling - it is more about what else is under the clutch cover, and how the area and exit from it is designed. Chain design also matters, it has to be chisel to do really well. My 346xp with 21LP chain is the best noodler I have (or have had), and it has an outboard clutch - but with 95VP it isn't so good.
The 372xp, MS361 and PS-5100 doesn't work as well, all inboard clutch saws.
The 372xp, MS361 and PS-5100 doesn't work as well, all inboard clutch saws.
SawTroll
Information Collector
It is a misunderstanding that an inboard clutch is better than an outboard for noodling - it is more about what else is under the clutch cover, and how the area and exit from it is designed. Chain design also matters, it has to be chisel to do really well. My 346xp with 21LP chain is the best noodler I have (or have had), and it has an outboard clutch - but with 95VP it isn't so good.
The 372xp, MS361 and PS-5100 doesn't work as well, all inboard clutch saws.
Also, all the mechanical/technical advantages all are in favor of the outboard, except that it takes a second or two less to swap chains with an inboard. The most important thing is that the outboards make the saws handle better though, keeping the bar closer to the center of gravity.
The 372xp, MS361 and PS-5100 doesn't work as well, all inboard clutch saws.
Also, all the mechanical/technical advantages all are in favor of the outboard, except that it takes a second or two less to swap chains with an inboard. The most important thing is that the outboards make the saws handle better though, keeping the bar closer to the center of gravity.
7sleeper
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well experienced users from this forum have mentioned that the 6100 is one of the best noodlers they have ever used. And to many it may mean nothing, but for people like me who donot have or want a hydraulic/machanical splitter, nooodling is quite important for getting tree trunks into managable pieces or preweakining for hand splitting.
And sorry ST, but the statement that mechanical/technical advantages are in favor of outboard, sure is embarrising and definately not your class!!! If this would be one second true, all Stihl, Dolmar, etc. saws would have died decades ago! And this is not true. So please, I understand your crusade, but don't build it on fiction but on facts! You are just making a fool of yourself otherwise.
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SawTroll
Information Collector
Well, the outboard makes the saw handle better (the most obvious effect) - but it also cools better, and keeps the load on the sprocket closer to the closest bearing, meaning less force on both that bearing and the crankshaft in general.
Outboard clutch means inboard bar sprocket, and vice versa.
The outboard doesn't "trap" heat into the case the same way that the inboard does.
Fans ot the inboard are basing their view more on "mythology", than on facts.
A fairly modern Husky outboard can be taken off much faster than you can remove an inboard one - it just is a matter of habit, no special tools - not even a piston stop.
D
Deleted member 83629
Guest
my 545 falls over setting on the ground idling.
my 026 stays upright on the ground idling.
so balance is out of the question. and if the bar gets pinched bucking a log on the 026 i can remove the clutch cover and take the power head off the bar/chain
with the 545 i cannot.
but im just a small minded man i don't know.
my 026 stays upright on the ground idling.
so balance is out of the question. and if the bar gets pinched bucking a log on the 026 i can remove the clutch cover and take the power head off the bar/chain
with the 545 i cannot.
but im just a small minded man i don't know.
I am absolutely agree with you!
Many of benefits with the outboard:
- much better handling, motility / centre of gravity is higher and closer to the guide bar /
- narrower body of the machine
- gyroscopic forces much less
I think using the outboard is much better is those saws, where during the saw operation the motility is the priority.
Much better in these cases the outboard!
In every other cases of saw operation the inboard is applicable.
Different type of duty, require different type of / outboard-inboard/ clutch system in perfect case!
That's the way,how I see....
Some of the best saw models ever made had outboard clutches and for good reason. l ain't anywhere near as absessive about it as ST, but the MS200t, 090, 562/346xp, MS150, are a few highly regarded saws and they ALL have outboards......probably for good reason. Inboards have advantages, outboards do too. I find outboards help push out noodles FWIW. Any good top handle worth earning a living with has an outboard, engineers jump through hoops to make those saws balance (sit flat) suspended by one finger! If stihl made inboard TH saws they would loose top spot over night to husky/other & which would make sawtroll do a few cartwheels in excitement. So if you don't want to see the ST doing cartwheels, be thankfull Stihl still adopts the outboard clutch when its needed.
KenJax Tree
Terraphobic
[emoji23] you guys are crazy
SawTroll
Information Collector
Balanse is something that matters when the saw is in your hands - not when it is sitting on the ground.
and if the bar gets pinched bucking a log on the 026 i can remove the clutch cover and take the power head off the bar/chain
with the 545 i cannot.
but im just a small minded man i don't know.
What makes you not being able to take a powerhead with an outboard off the pinched bar?
Just knock the clutch off, and there you are. You just need a screwdriver and something to hit it with.
7sleeper
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well still waiting for the facts ST. Where are all the 361, 660, 260, etc. that died an early death due to "heat trapping", "force on the bearing and crankshaft", "too much load" by being farther away...
Sorry ST but these arguments just show a certain type of radicalism, that boarders obsession. I hope you will someday find your peace.
Well you obviously never heard of the 260, 361, etc. line from Stihl, that all belong to "some of the best saw models ever made...". And the reason why Stihl TH saws are dominent is the simple fact that the engine is clearly supperior to anything else on the market.Some of the best saw models ever made had outboard clutches and for good reason. l ain't anywhere near as absessive about it as ST, but the MS200t, 090, 562/346xp, MS150, are a few highly regarded saws and they ALL have outboards......probably for good reason. Inboards have advantages, outboards do too. I find outboards help push out noodles FWIW. Any good top handle worth earning a living with has an outboard, engineers jump through hoops to make those saws balance (sit flat) suspended by one finger! If stihl made inboard TH saws they would loose top spot over night to husky/other & which would make sawtroll do a few cartwheels in excitement. So if you don't want to see the ST doing cartwheels, be thankfull Stihl still adopts the outboard clutch when its needed.
Well I better leave this thread, because neglecting reality is clearly dominent here.
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D
Deleted member 83629
Guest
Take it off in the field is to much like work Both saws balance the same in my hand.
Chris J.
Addicted to ArboristSite
For the right price I'd gladly buy a low-hours used Echo CS-620.
For the right price I did buy a low-hours used Makita DCS6421.
For the right price I did buy a low-hours used Makita DCS6421.
SawTroll
Information Collector
Well, the MS261 and 362 has more than their share of trouble in the clutch bearing/clutch area, caused by melting bearing cages.
I never said those things were a major issue with the inboard clutch though, as there are other factors as well.
Obviously, the main issue with the inboards is the effect they have on the handling, by putting the cutting attachment further out from the center of mass.
I run a fix them all... I honestly run more Stihls, Echos, and Husky's than my Dolmars just becuase I test cut before I return. that being said I still wouldnt replace my Dolkitas for other brands.
Makita tools are sold at box stores and still reported to be some of the best on the market... 18v lithium ion tools come to mind. In my mind I think Makita may start using the "box stores" to their advantage to move larger quantities of "pro product" to the market. I know nobody wants to hear that but Home Depot already has 2200+ retail stores around the USA and those are store fronts that will not be closing or going out of business. Yes, that is a really harsh truth and we don't know what will happen to the thousands of small engine shops that have carried and continued good service for years. However in Makita's eyes, they make money by selling more units and the American public has been a use it and throw it away society for a long time now. I hope they will continue their relationship with the dolmar factory and keep the same engineering department and high quality that Dolmar has always been known for. The matter of fact is that those worried about parts... Well your local home depot or makita retailer will probably provide those to you along with small engine shops that carried the dolmar line. I absolutly HATE to say it but it is a smart Corporate choice for makita to retail the saws through box-stores. More parts distribution locations, more sales, built in store front locations that wont move or change brands.
Hate me all you want but...
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Makita-20-in-61cc-Gas-Professional-Chainsaw-EA6100P53G/205977621
Makita tools are sold at box stores and still reported to be some of the best on the market... 18v lithium ion tools come to mind. In my mind I think Makita may start using the "box stores" to their advantage to move larger quantities of "pro product" to the market. I know nobody wants to hear that but Home Depot already has 2200+ retail stores around the USA and those are store fronts that will not be closing or going out of business. Yes, that is a really harsh truth and we don't know what will happen to the thousands of small engine shops that have carried and continued good service for years. However in Makita's eyes, they make money by selling more units and the American public has been a use it and throw it away society for a long time now. I hope they will continue their relationship with the dolmar factory and keep the same engineering department and high quality that Dolmar has always been known for. The matter of fact is that those worried about parts... Well your local home depot or makita retailer will probably provide those to you along with small engine shops that carried the dolmar line. I absolutly HATE to say it but it is a smart Corporate choice for makita to retail the saws through box-stores. More parts distribution locations, more sales, built in store front locations that wont move or change brands.
Hate me all you want but...
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Makita-20-in-61cc-Gas-Professional-Chainsaw-EA6100P53G/205977621
7sleeper
Addicted to ArboristSite
The problems with melting bearing cages, at least all cases that I am aware of and at least all cases in german threads, were due to NON greased bearings during production and only included the 261, never the 362! So this is a simple fix and as far as I have been informed by my contacts in german speaking forums, Stihl even gave out a warning to the dealers that a batch had been delivered with this problem and all dealers have been advised to recheck this area in the "pre hand over going over". So I never read again about a problem after the, I forgot the real number but it was quite low, about 5 or 6 published cases.
But yes the outboard clutch brings the bar more to the center so that handling may or may not, DEPENDING on the user, be improved. And for me this is a VERY important consideration. Everyone is NOT the same so there are quite a few who feel more comfortable with a inboard clutch saw, irrespective of what the rest say.
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