First attempt for pics...

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Well unfortunately only 1 pic made it. That logs 1 of several I've got. Started on a white oak also and boy oh boy.....I really need to figure out this chain sharpening thing.
 
Well unfortunately only 1 pic made it. That logs 1 of several I've got. Started on a white oak also and boy oh boy.....I really need to figure out this chain sharpening thing.
You can hand file (without a jig) and precision measure/ refile, or let your jig measure for you. If you can handle the setup, the Granberg File-N-Joint, or Grind-N-Joint will give excellent results, with equal length teeth (without burning like the cheap bench grinders); the trick is getting ALL teeth same length
 
This chain is a 404. Came with the saw and is pretty roached out. Looks like they cut railroad track with one side, ballast stone with the other, and beat it with a sledgehammer for good measure. I've started grinding it down towards 10 degrees. Gonna order some new chain(s) this week. Gonna try some different configurations and see what works best for me.
 
. . . . the trick is getting ALL teeth same length

This is not necessary and can lead to waste of cutter length because if a couple of cutters are filed too short then ALL the other cutters have to be shortened .

The notion that cutters have to be the same length assumes the chain sits firmly on the rails and cuts wood like a wood plane but this simply does not happen when cross cutting because the chain porpoises in the cut and the wood is chipped and torn rather than planed out.

I gave up worrying about cutter length in about 2009 when I started using progressive chain sharpening. see http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...ly-progressive-depth-raker-generators.114624/ This thread will show you a bunch of ideas about this method of sharpening.

More relevant to optimum cutting speed is to have about the same Raker - cutter tip - wood angle like this
achecking-with-a-ruler-across-the-tops-of-the-cutters-jpg.335896


The length of the cutter is then not as important because it is raker angle. and the amount of hook that determines how much wood is grabbed by the cutter.
In practice the longer cutters will wear more so will develop more edge glint.
When next sharpened if this glint is "just removed" it will require more file strokes than the shorter less glint edged cutters so all the cutters will after multiple sharpenings end up at about the same length anyway.

Progressive chain sharpening will make old chains cut like new ones and everyone that I know that has tried it has never gone back to other methods.
 
I've read a lot of your tips and hints on sharpening bobl the problem I have is understanding where your angles are referenced from. And to show my lack of experience also..... Ive never even used a gauge before. Ive got one sitting in my tool box next to my grinder. I've always just "bumped" the rakes every few sharpenings. (Set the stop of course) I think they're probably still to high. All I'm getting is very fine dust and a backache. Any suggestions, help, and pointers will be appreciated and attempted.
 
I've read a lot of your tips and hints on sharpening bobl the problem I have is understanding where your angles are referenced from.
Put a straight ruler across the top of the cutter and then use a feeler gauge between the ruler and the raker to measure the raker depth.
If the raker depth is <1/10th of the gullet width then the rakers are too high and this will make a lot of dust.

An easier way to do this is using a digital angle finder like this - the angle finder is perched between the cutter edge and its adjacent raker top

The starting point for raker angles is 6º
- they don't have to be exactly 6º anywhere between 5.5 and 6.5º is fine
- the optimum raker angle depends on things like available power, length of cut, hardness of wood and how much vibe you are prepared to tolerate.
- big powerhead, short cut in soft wood and don't worry about vibe then try 7, 8 or even 9º
- small saw, long bar and hard wood leave it at 6º
- to see what your saw can handle for a given situation increase the raker angle util the chains starts to grab and the lower the angle but filing the cutters (not rakers) and then measure the angle
- of course I don't do this every time I touch the rakers - just set the angles at home and then bump the rakers every 3-4 raker touch up which for me is after every tank.
- the extra time taken to set the raker angles like this is EASILY recovered in improved cutting speeds, reduced powerhead/chain/bar wear and tear, and the sheer joy of watching chips rather than dust fly.

And to show my lack of experience also..... Ive never even used a gauge before.
I assume you mean a raker gauge with a fixed (usually 0.025") depth. These are OK when the chain is new but are increasingly less so as the cutter shortens due to sharpening.

Ive got one sitting in my tool box next to my grinder. I've always just "bumped" the rakes every few sharpenings. (Set the stop of course) I think they're probably still to high. All I'm getting is very fine dust and a backache. Any suggestions, help, and pointers will be appreciated and attempted.

One think about filing cutters is that the "feel" of a cutter does not provide the best indicator that it is sharp. Provided the cutter profile (hook etc) is OK, filing just enough to remove "edge glint" is all that is required. Any more than this is a waste of metal.
 
Put a straight ruler across the top of the cutter and then use a feeler gauge between the ruler and the raker to measure the raker depth.
If the raker depth is <1/10th of the gullet width then the rakers are too high and this will make a lot of dust.

An easier way to do this is using a digital angle finder like this - the angle finder is perched between the cutter edge and its adjacent raker top

The starting point for raker angles is 6º
- they don't have to be exactly 6º anywhere between 5.5 and 6.5º is fine
- the optimum raker angle depends on things like available power, length of cut, hardness of wood and how much vibe you are prepared to tolerate.
- big powerhead, short cut in soft wood and don't worry about vibe then try 7, 8 or even 9º
- small saw, long bar and hard wood leave it at 6º
- to see what your saw can handle for a given situation increase the raker angle util the chains starts to grab and the lower the angle but filing the cutters (not rakers) and then measure the angle
- of course I don't do this every time I touch the rakers - just set the angles at home and then bump the rakers every 3-4 raker touch up which for me is after every tank.
- the extra time taken to set the raker angles like this is EASILY recovered in improved cutting speeds, reduced powerhead/chain/bar wear and tear, and the sheer joy of watching chips rather than dust fly.


I assume you mean a raker gauge with a fixed (usually 0.025") depth. These are OK when the chain is new but are increasingly less so as the cutter shortens due to sharpening.



One think about filing cutters is that the "feel" of a cutter does not provide the best indicator that it is sharp. Provided the cutter profile (hook etc) is OK, filing just enough to remove "edge glint" is all that is required. Any more than this is a waste of metal.

I will try this out. I'd like to think I'm a fairly tough guy and viberation won't bother me too much. I've got an 075 that's been bored and resleeved to 115cc. Dull chain and kinda dry white oak didn't even stop that saw! (Stopped me t
 
I will try this out. I'd like to think I'm a fairly tough guy and viberation won't bother me too much. I've got an 075 that's been bored and resleeved to 115cc. Dull chain and kinda dry white oak didn't even stop that saw! (Stopped me t

I wasn't really referring to the effect of vibe on an operator as this can be managed by using a remote throttle and soft rubber mountain bike handles on the mill . What I'm referring to is chain vibe caused by the chain grabbing more wood than intended. This results in greater strain on the chain and higher pressure slaps of the chain back down onto bar rails which causes increased B&C wear. Some operators can deal with that while others prefer to be more gentle with their gear.
 
I wasn't really referring to the effect of vibe on an operator as this can be managed by using a remote throttle and soft rubber mountain bike handles on the mill . What I'm referring to is chain vibe caused by the chain grabbing more wood than intended. This results in greater strain on the chain and higher pressure slaps of the chain back down onto bar rails which causes increased B&C wear. Some operators can deal with that while others prefer to be more gentle with their gear.
Oh....this saw has definitely seen its better days. I'm trying to find some parts that are broken and replace them, and let me tell you it's been an adventure! I'd like to be able to set the saw down while it's running to give it a cool down but, it likes to go walkabout on the ground while at idle. It kinda likes to vibrate itself apart already, and anything I can do to prevent that will be a plus. What style chain would you recommend? Plus what is meant by "cleaning" out the gullet? I've got a couple days off ahead of me and am gonna give it another try.....
 
Oh....this saw has definitely seen its better days. I'm trying to find some parts that are broken and replace them, and let me tell you it's been an adventure! I'd like to be able to set the saw down while it's running to give it a cool down but, it likes to go walkabout on the ground while at idle. It kinda likes to vibrate itself apart already, and anything I can do to prevent that will be a plus. What style chain would you recommend? Plus what is meant by "cleaning" out the gullet? I've got a couple days off ahead of me and am gonna give it another try.....

I have been using my Stihl chain saws for many years now... and only recently did I take it upon myself to properly learn how to sharpen them. it is easy to do. get the correct kit for your saw if it is possible. study and watch the vids on utube. a good kit will run about $20 or bit more. cheaper than a handful of new chains. the gullet is the slot in the bar the guides ride in and is oiled by oiler up by chain adjuster area. proper chain sharpening also includes how to set ur chain and bar, for it being put away, and also for when u plan to use it. chain adjustment is important. a lot of chain saw operators who sharpen their own saws, like a rounded top raker as it rides in the kerf slot (chain cut slot) smoother. learn the safety of chain sharpening. sharpend teeth are very sharp, so wear leather gloves! a must! ensure u do! ;) there is a kit, round file correct size to match ur teeth... flat file for rakers and the guage to set the raker depth, ensure they are correct for tooth. a sharp chain with proper set rakers will make long chips. and help u in using ur saw, for now u can also read the chips, too, long chips and she is running cutting well. long as compared to saw dust. learn the parts that make up chain sections. u will then be able to inspect ur chain to ensure it is in good condition to put to work. the bar and chain is just as important as the powerhead itself... but sadly, oft overlooked. a good running saw with a well tuned bar and sharp chain is a joy to run... and operate. it takes time to learn all this stuff about the chain, its parts, gauge, how to sharpen, etc... but if u take the time and do the work you will enjoy your saw more so... and besides... who isn't proud of a job well done... ? depth guage and raker same animal... there are many this n that's on how to do it, this tool, etc. just start with a basic 3-pc chain saw sharpening kit for your saw's chain... and learn how to do it by hand. :)

chain_parts__large.jpg
 
... flat file for rakers and the guage to set the raker depth,

Using a standard raker depth gauge produces the same raker depth irrespective of the length of the cutter. The more the cutter is sharpened the shorter it gets and the longer the gullet gets. This produces an increasing lower and lower raker angle making increasing amounts of dust and less chips. In frustration I see many chainsaw owners repeatedly resharpening their cutters and using the gauges to make the situation even worse. In the end they throw the chains away and buy new ones. If progressive chains sharpening is used the chain will work like new all the way through its life. Better still progressive sharpening allows you to fine tune the raker setting to better suit you powerhead, length of bar and hardness of wood. On short bars (or narrow) softwood logs when using a powerful saw the raker depth can be doubled dramatically improving cutting speeds. Of course there will be more vibe and resulting wear and tear but if you want to cut fast this one of the few ways to do this.

chain_parts__large-jpg.484744

Even though I have used this sort of (safety) chain on my small saws and mills (mine is safety chain lo pro chain) I don't normally recommend using safety chain on a CSM.
The main reason for using this type of chain is to reduce kickback however kickback is a non-issue on a CSM.
The other reason not to used it on CSMs is the bulkier guard link limits the amount of sawdust that can be carried and hence removed by the chains which then restricts the cutting capability of this chain.
This is one reason why skip chain is used in wide cuts, so that the saw dust can be more easily cleared.

However, if you use your saw for bucking as well as milling I can understand why you might do this - well thats why I use it.
The other problem with guard links is if these links eventually affect the raker angle so they also need to be filed.
If safety chain is used and the chain is being progressively sharpened and the guard links are being filed down to maintain raker angle an even higher raker angle needs to be used as the raker contact area with the wood is greater and this prevents the raker digging into the wood.
Most folks don't realise the raker penetrates slightly into the wood and this changes the amount of wood penetration and grab by by the cutter.
This is now bordering on extra nerdy chain sharpening territory. Pointy rakers tops will dig in more so shallower raker angles should be used but if flatter top rakers are used then a more aggressive raker angel can be employed.
 
Back
Top