Tree id, please

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I cannot say yes or no, since I don't know what this tree is. The flower parts seem inconsistent with other juglans species flower parts.

Walnut,%20Black,%20Flower5.JPG


This picture is black walnut from Google images.
 
The hanging flowers are walut-like. My thinking is the are either just that different on this species or perhaps they have started to drop pieces?

Look at those leaf scars... If that is all I had to go by, I'd say walut for sure.
 
The hanging flowers are walut-like. My thinking is the are either just that different on this species or perhaps they have started to drop pieces?

Look at those leaf scars... If that is all I had to go by, I'd say walut for sure.

Walnuts certainly have their flowers on a "raceme", as are seen on my mystery tree. The mystery tree has racemes with flattened samara attached, rather than an umbel, as occurs in the walnut. I don't really know if this is the sort of botanical difference that would exclude this tree from being related to a walnut tree. I can assure you that it isn't a walnut or pecan tree, 'cause I know what those look like. All the other trees related to the Juglans mentions that I looked at had acuminate (pointed) leaves, so I am at a complete loss as to what this thing is.

Disclaimer: I am real rusty on my use of botanical terminology, and might be making a mistake with some of this explanation. It's been about 35 years since I studied this stuff, so I feel entitled to make an occasional mistake. I think of these little exercises as continuing education. If you catch me making a mistake, try to be pleasant while informing me of any errors.

My plant taxonomy course never even mentioned leaf scars, and I have never studied leaf scars until recently. Quite frankly, that is an area I need to work more on.
 
Spent some time digging to see what my other Juglans are. You are right...they all have pointed leaves. Also I see what you mean with the samara-like structure on the raceme.

I'm going to stick with Juglandaceae but go with a genus I honestly did not know was in the family (I thought it was either Juglans or Carya): Pterocarya ... The wingnuts. My best guess now is Chinese wingnut Pterocarya stenoptera. And I'm sticking to until somebody shows or suggests something that will change my mind! Some of the pictures have moire rounded leaves while others are more pointed.
 
Spent some time digging to see what my other Juglans are. You are right...they all have pointed leaves. Also I see what you mean with the samara-like structure on the raceme.

I'm going to stick with Juglandaceae but go with a genus I honestly did not know was in the family (I thought it was either Juglans or Carya): Pterocarya ... The wingnuts. My best guess now is Chinese wingnut Pterocarya stenoptera. And I'm sticking to until somebody shows or suggests something that will change my mind! Some of the pictures have moire rounded leaves while others are more pointed.

Ok. I think you are hot on the trail here, but the pics I have of that species are acuminate leaves, and the wingnuts are quite a bit more prominent. Of course, my mystery tree might just get bigger wingnuts with time.

Check out this link: http://luirig.altervista.org/biology/main.php?taxon=Pterocarya+stenoptera

Did you consider Pterocarya fraxinifolia? The Caucasian wingnut (yep, that's it's name!) is equally acuminate, but the raceme and samara look a bit more like my mystery tree.

If I go down to the Zoo and stick a nice permanent label on the tree stating that it is a Caucasian Wingnut tree, I'll bet that they cut the tree down as racially insensitive. It is located right at the entrance to the "Africa" section of the zoo! :laugh:

Pterocarya tonkinensis: no. apex acute to acuminate, even pinnately compound
Pterocarya macroptera: Maybe. leaves are pointy.
Pterocarya hupehensis: no. apex acute to acuminate, even pinnately compound
Pterocarya × rehderiana: Maybe. leaves are pointy.

It occurs to me that these trees seem to have the samara vertically arranged: parallel to the axis of the raceme. Our mystery tree does not seem to be built that way. I wonder if this makes any difference taxonomically?
 
Ok. I think you are hot on the trail here, but the pics I have of that species are acuminate leaves, and the wingnuts are quite a bit more prominent. Of course, my mystery tree might just get bigger wingnuts with time.

Check out this link: http://luirig.altervista.org/biology/main.php?taxon=Pterocarya+stenoptera

Did you consider Pterocarya fraxinifolia? The Caucasian wingnut (yep, that's it's name!) is equally acuminate, but the raceme and samara look a bit more like my mystery tree.

If I go down to the Zoo and stick a nice permanent label on the tree stating that it is a Caucasian Wingnut tree, I'll bet that they cut the tree down as racially insensitive. It is located right at the entrance to the "Africa" section of the zoo! :laugh:

Pterocarya tonkinensis: no. apex acute to acuminate, even pinnately compound
Pterocarya macroptera: Maybe. leaves are pointy.
Pterocarya hupehensis: no. apex acute to acuminate, even pinnately compound
Pterocarya × rehderiana: Maybe. leaves are pointy.

It occurs to me that these trees seem to have the samara vertically arranged: parallel to the axis of the raceme. Our mystery tree does not seem to be built that way. I wonder if this makes any difference taxonomically?
Yeah, I agree it could be those others...I claim ZERO expertise in this Genus. Look at the leaf in the dead center of your second picture and the lowest one in the bottom picture. Both of those looked to have a winged rachis which looking at a few ID pages seems to be on Chinese but not Caucasian...or the others. Again - I could be talked out of this, but that is still my best guess.

re: Caucasian wingnut...that is funny. I guess it would depend if it is on the left or right. A left wingnut would probably be tolerated because they say they have no biases:dizzy:
 
Glad to see your Google worked too ;) I was looking at that on the phone, and it is a little more of a paid to do links there...

I can't stand to do much research on a phone. That is what computers are for. Tiny screens with even tinier touch points make it rather impractical for me. The smart phone is only for when you really need an answer and don't have a computer handy...IMO.

I had a competitor tell me once how great and fast his Apple Touch was. Then I showed him what my 19" I7 laptop could do. He didn't even know what a spreadsheet was, and thought that computers were all about email, internet, and instant messaging.
 
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re: Caucasian wingnut...that is funny. I guess it would depend if it is on the left or right. A left wingnut would probably be tolerated because they say they have no biases:dizzy:

Well bless my bones! You have accurately guessed the survival location of the tree: it is on the left of where the tram stops to let everyone out. Slightly left of center for the whole entrance area.
 
I can't stand to do much research on a phone. That is what computers are for. Tiny screens with even tinier touch points make it rather impractical for me. The smart phone is only for when you really need an answer and don't have a computer handy...IMO.
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Agreed...I had time to kill so I used what I had to find/post that. I much prefer the computer to the phone for internet, but it sure is handy when I want to look something up quickly in the field.
 
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