Wood-mizer question

[swanny]

Recently picked up a slightly used (20 to 40 hrs. worth) LT28 and noticed the top round bar (the one the carriage head bearings roll on) welded on the main beam is not even close to being straight left-to-right. Measured it with a string and found the top bar snakes 1/8" in one direction and then 1/16 the other in a couple places. Main beam has a 1/8" lateral bow in the center. Have not measured bottom round bar.

Thought it might have been bumped by a fork lift or something but the distortions arent' localized (say a 6" long spot), but rather span out considerably (2 to 3' run). Plus, there were no scuff or damage marks anywhere to be found. Original owner was a builder, so he was knowledgeable enough not to treat it harshly. Appears to have been welded this way.

Anyone ever look down their bars to see if they are straight?

Called Woodmizer and the rep amazingly acted like it wouldn't make a difference. It actually makes the far side of the blade rise and fall if you think about it. Guy transfered me to some guy that has been with the company since the beginning, so I left a voice message but never heard back from him.

 

[swanny]

Shoot...wish I had read the threads about WM since we bought our first mill almost 10 years ago. Makes sense now...quality control sucks evidently, along with their follow up. Guess I'll have to fix it myself like everything else.

 

[Franny K]

Sorry no one with a similar mill commented. I would expect it left the factory in proper condition. They do offer the original purchaser a guarantee or warranty. Even a money back option it seems from their website. Buying real close to new in a private party sale or at a public auction takes a risk.

 

[mountainlake]

That doesn't sound like a easy job, grind it off then get it straight and weld it back on. That 1/6 to 1/8 off doesn't sound like much but its really exaggerated on a cantilevered mill. Shame on WM for lowering their quality. Steve

 

[swanny]

I, too, would have expected this unit to have left the factory in nothing less than 'straight as an arrow' condition, but considering I have an extensive 30 year history of straightening steel and aluminum (body/fender/paint business, restoration of cars and trucks, trailer fabrication and repairs, skid steer/attachment repairs) I have developed an eye for figuring out what happened. Slight chance I could be wrong, but the more I've looked at this unit, the more I am convinced it is exactly in the condition that it left the factory. It was in next to mint shape when I bought it. Stored indoors the entire time. Paint was next to immaculate. The way the bar is welded on both sides and bent does not come close to what a straight bar would look like when bent by someone's carelessness. No evidence to prove carelessness via the user. Only conclusion the evidence suggests is it left the factory in this shape.

 

[swanny]

Interestingly, the guy from Wood-mizer calls this week. Think his name is Joe? Can't remember for sure. Nice guy. Technical guy. He tells me that a little waviness in the upper and lower bars is going to happen due to the welding process. Question is: what's acceptable? Now, I've got lotsa experience in tacking metal and going back to stitch it in a manner so that it doesn't heat creep. I tell him that I could get those round bars "straight" if I was fabricating a mill.

Asked if it's all automated as far as the install or is it part human and part machine. He didn't know for sure, but thought a person installed the bars, followed by an automated welding process. Next, he told me that it really didn't matter if the bars snaked, as long as the top and bottom bar snaked together the cantilevered head would follow both to no ill affect. But that was short lived when he pulled up the designs on the cantilevered head and mumbled that there was one point of contact on the lower bearing and two points of contact on the upper (a couple feet apart). I think he realized that if my bars snaked back and forth it would indeed affect the head travel, especially on the far side. It's difficult enough sometimes to control the cut with many variables, add to those two bars that snake back and forth and the mill becomes less than acceptable for expecting tight tolerances.

So I told him I appreciated him contacting me, and that I could fix the problem, but it was just aggravating buying a nearly new mill only to find out that you'll spend your labor to correct something ought to have been right from the factory. His response was OK, and that was the end of our conversation.

Now, I have been a small business owner for nearly thirty years and have dealt with a few stand-up companies. Bought a rubber track machine (skid steer/ctl) once from a contractor in VA who bought new tracks from a company called Dominion. They gave him a 1000 hr or one year warranty that was good only to the original purchaser. I bought the machine when the tracks were fourteen or fifteen months old, had 300 hrs on them, but were cracking severely in between the lugs. So I called Dominion's warranty department and told them the details. They said send them pics. I sent pics. Within a week I had a brand new pair of tracks sitting at the shop and all I had to pay was for shipping. That is an example of an honorable company that goes beyond what they are legally required.

Now, I asked for nothing, and Wood-mizer offered me nothing. NO can of paint, no well-wishes or 10% discount on blades. Nada.

So today I pull the mill out of the woods and into the shop. I notice the bottom bar snakes just as bad as the top, but in different places. Run the string line and see the snaking is worse than I thought on the top. My standoffs for the string on the front and back are an inch and 3/16. I get readings anywhere from an inch and 3/32 and and inch and 5/16. That's a tremendous amount considering the top and bottom bars are very closely spaced - about 9 1/8" on centers. These bars are what control the blade travel up and down. The vertical head travel on the far side of the cantilever will be all over the place.

 

[swanny]

Got the top rail straightened today. Took about 4 or 5 hrs. Zipped the welds both sides with chop saw for the first 7.5 feet, ran the string, pried the top rail over and tacked it, then welded it. It's 1/32" or less deviation now. Before I fixed it a straight edge would not touch both bars at the same time...would have to rock back and forth a good bit. Now it touches both rails. Used bobcat orange paint...pretty close, but could use a touch of black mixed in it to calm it down. Urethaned the gap to keep corrosion and sawdust out.

Wood-mizer does a great job with their finishes...I'm impressed at the attention to detail and adhesion. I added a 5k pound jack at the front to make the setup easier. If anyone wants a good WM jack, I'll mail it to you if you pay for shipping.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Too bad it's a pain to ship aerosol cans, I have several rattle cans of Woodmizer paint. (considered HAZ MAT because of the air freight to/from AK)

 

[mountainlake]

How can anyone tell you that 1/8" on a cantilevered head that exaggerates that 1/8" doesn't matter. Joe is full of bs. Good job on fixing poor WM quality control. Steve

 

[Franny K]

It didn't happen yet with a sawmill but in general buying stuff where you give a deposit, and then it is made, and then you pay the balance when delivered hasn't worked out too well lately.

I can't see from the pictures if the round member followed the frame rectangular tube or was applied with whatever wiggle it came off the stock rack with. I would hope sawmill makers have a fixture they make the frames in. To transport one of those probably the carriage should be at a specific place, down low and blocked on the far side.

 

[swanny]

Yeah, I think they ran over the round bars with a forklift before they installed them.

Finally got around to stringing the lower bar and found it deviates a fat 1/8" in the opposite direction the top did. Between the double jacks is the worst of it. This morning I felt like listing this on ebay with full disclosure and getting rid of it, but I'd lose too much money which I can't afford to do. I can live with 1/16" deviation, but not 1/8". If you carefully level each bunk to the blade and then sight down the bunks they look like a roller coaster. One was a 1/4" higher to the one right next to it.

Fixing the lower bar will be time consuming for sure.

 

[swanny]

Finally got around to fix the lower bar - had to do 18' of it! Took two days due to the tight quarters around the axle. Went through one 14" metal chop saw blade, 14 - 4" cut off wheels for the Makita grinder (which, after twenty five years gave up the ghost on this job), 4 - 6" cut off wheels, and 6 sawzall blades. Plasma torch wasn't surgical enough...bummer. All in all I snipped and re-welded around 180 stitches.

Thought I had enough patience and perseverance before I purchased this mill, but no...needed more evidently. Now, I look forward to many years use out of a problem free mizer. They ought to amend the owners manual in the section about trouble shooting wavy cuts and add to check the straightness of the upper and lower rails. Would have saved me a lot of aggravation.

 

[swanny]

With all the problems with the round bars wagging left and right, I found the main beam was vertically heaved in the center 5/16 of an inch at rest. Now, if you drop the rear jack with the saw head slid all the way over to it, then crank on the front jack and lift the wheel so it spins you can actually flex the beam around an 1/8". While it was in the woods I experimented and put the weight on either end, built up the center bunks with wood, took a 2500 lb log and dropped it on the bunks from a foot in the air. Had lots of spring...log bounced quite a bit, but it didn't come close to bending the hump out of it.



So I chained it down to the shop floor in the middle of the beam and used floor jacks on both ends along with the crank jacks (about 8 tons pressure per end). Went up in 1/2" increments, relaxed it, then measured from the string in the middle. Had to go up 3" on either end before I found it took set. Also massaged the beam a bit with a 15 lb sledge (wood block between beam and sledge) when it was under tension. Now she's straight!!!!



Wood-mizer at least ought to offer me a job in R&D with my experience in fixing their problem child. The beam design they use is very solid. Just wish they got it straight when it left the factory.

I did take the log clamp and chop the handle off...was really awkward trying to one hand it from overtop the beam, plus the handle often got bent from sliding flitches off the top, and the log turner when in the up position was in the handles' way. Flattened a pipe and slid it in...much better now. Will get rid of the pipe and box the handle end in when I get time, but it works for now.

 

[swanny]

Finally got around to boxing in the log clamp handle. WM should really consider making this a stock feature....keeps the flitches you push off from bending the handle. Plus it allows you to easily one hand the clamp from the opposite side...saves hiking around.

 

[DTrap]

Wow. That's horrible guality controll. Good on you for making it right. WM should have done it right in the first place but at least you have it worked out now.

 

[buzz sawyer]

Maybe I'm missing something? I can understand the concern with vertical alignment but in my experience with wood mizer saws, I don't see why a little side to side variation makes a difference. The saw is sawing in that direction, right? This seems to be no different than moving a chainsaw back and forth in the cut.

 

[swanny]

Buzz - not sure I understand your question. "A little side to side varitation..." meaning variation on the upper and lower rails that the saw head bearings run on? If so, then if those round bars run out of plumb the slightest, the result is the cantilevered saw head bobbles up and down on the far side. Mine were running out of plumb in opposite directions at times pretty radically.

 

[buzz sawyer]

Buzz - not sure I understand your question. "A little side to side varitation..." meaning variation on the upper and lower rails that the saw head bearings run on? If so, then if those round bars run out of plumb the slightest, the result is the cantilevered saw head bobbles up and down on the far side. Mine were running out of plumb in opposite directions at times pretty radically.

OK, understood now. I thought the whole saw head was just moving side to side from the lengthwise runout in the guide rod.

 

[swanny]

Couple vids milling lobllolly pine with Simple Green in the water - really did a good job keeping the blade clean. Daughter was stickering and stacking.

 

[buzz sawyer]

Glad it's running well for you. Is that wood as clear as it looks in the vid?