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Birch was my thought also, bark is too smooth for cottonwood. To the OP, if a twig will burn like it has oil in it probably birch. Cottonwood will have very bulbous buds on it during the winter.
he knows, I'm sure. I was saying it does LOOK LIKE...the way the light hit the bark. Like I was saying, Black Cottonwood looks different from Black Cottonwood up north BC. They are Smooth and can have a green tint to them
when they are under 20' approximately.
The Moss grows on them too, much like the pic.
.you missed the moral of the story if you want to compare a tree from a different area to a tree in your area. Like I said the exact same species takes on a different look from a hundred miles away. Your cottonwood is not of the same species.
 
Birch was my thought also, bark is too smooth for cottonwood. To the OP, if a twig will burn like it has oil in it probably birch. Cottonwood will have very bulbous buds on it during the winter.
I will look closer in daylight ,may be birch has different leaves than any of the other trees here.only trees i pay much attention to are fir and cedar to mill into lumber.
 
Good thread, I learned some things that should help me stay safer. I rarely cut a healthy tree, most are dead or dying, and lots are leaners - that's just what's left in the woods here now, which are in poor shape. Plus storm damage of course.

I've been marking my cuts using a hatchet on the bark for a while now - I'm not proud!
 
Not doubt It does look like a Birch ..I can not argue that. Especially with the multi tops. and funny trunk and the appearance of the bark. He hasn't really looked at it he said and just took the pic in the dark
I wouldn't bet against it being a birch.

*Edit
Anyway @Woody912 I didn't see Brian weigh back in but this post was to you.
Young Cottonwood much bigger than that are in fact Smooh still here but certainly don't have multiple tops natually.
 
Not doubt It does look like a Birch ..I can not argue that. Especially with the multi tops. and funny trunk and the appearance of the bark. He hasn't really looked at it he said and just took the pic in the dark
I wouldn't bet against it being a birch.

*Edit
Anyway @Woody912 I didn't see Brian weigh back in but this post was to you.
Young Cottonwood much bigger than that are in fact Smooh still here but certainly don't have multiple tops natually.
Cottonwood also has a heavy corrugated corky bark. Lets save out this tree, Brian can tap it in the spring for birch syrup for pancakes.
That tree has been standing longer than we have and may be standing long after all of are gone.
 
This is a VERY good thread.

Carry on. :)
My thoughts exactly. Much more enjoyable here than in the Forestry thread because it's like two magician's entertaining themselves.
"Is that your card"? "Yeah..BIG DEAL"!
"Look!..a Rabbit..."so what!
This is a VERY good thread.

Carry on. :)

Good thread, I learned some things that should help me stay safer. I rarely cut a healthy tree, most are dead or dying, and lots are leaners - that's just what's left in the woods here now, which are in poor shape. Plus storm damage of course.

I've been marking my cuts using a hatchet on the bark for a while now - I'm not proud!

Tring to remember why I quoted you guys?? OH! ..to randomly tell you guys to F* OFF...no..no, that wasn't it. I'm sure some would be happier with that. Oh confession. ..that's it.

I confess this is a great thread.

Look a wabbit! :hi:
 
Gypo, likely hasn't been logged for close to 25 years. A German investment company owned most of the land and they logged it severely just before the deal closed to sell the property. The last 3 owners were never interested in the bush, in fact one cash cropper just had an excavator go around the bush and smash everything he could back into the bush. It's a real rocky farm and over the years everyone who picked rocks on it just backed as far into the bush as they could and dumped the rocks in the trees. There is about 30' of rocks all around the bush now. When we owned it we cut it regular, I live on land severed off the original farm. The house I live in and my barn was built with lumber from that bush. I'm just glad I can get all the wood I want this close to home.
Too bad that 1000 acres was so mismanaged over the years. Had it been so, every 10 year cut would have yeilded 1,000000 (million dollars)+. But in actuality, once you finished cutting, it wood be time to start all over again as a one man show. It's never too late to manage a bush no matter it's size.
 
My thoughts exactly. Much more enjoyable here than in the Forestry thread because it's like two magician's entertaining themselves.
"Is that your card"? "Yeah..BIG DEAL"!
"Look!..a Rabbit..."so what!




Tring to remember why I quoted you guys?? OH! ..to randomly tell you guys to F* OFF...no..no, that wasn't it. I'm sure some would be happier with that. Oh confession. ..that's it.

I confession that is is a great thread.

Look a wabbit! :hi:
Was thinking the same thing about F&L, even though there are a few good guys over there. Too much fake news and neverhadbeen loggers who are too afraid to ask questions for fear they may reveil their true self.
 
×/×/×//×/×/×/×/× *EDIT* ×/×/×/×/×//×/×

*Not a Barberchair tecneque

Posted in regards to swinger a tree with a forward lean, undercut would be to the side in the intended direction of fall and NOT with the lean.


That's a "Johnny hold me tight" illustration.
The dotted line is your regular undercut.
You are going to make it into a three angle undercut by taking about three really thin cookies out, about the same thickness of the chain. Thin enough you can twist the saw and snap 'em off. The third angle (vertical angle) should be 2" aprox. As you are making the vertical face, DO NOT go deeper than the top cut or you are defeating the purpose. This allows the fibers room to peal and not stretch and break prematurely. However It doesn't ensure the maximum thicknesses of holding wood it will peal with it. Secondly you can bore behind the holding wood to seal the deal when it's crucial, like the wife's car.

20170117_203553.jpg



●*EDIT top^^^^^^
 
image.jpeg
That a "Johnny hold me tight" illustration.
The dotted line is your regular undercut.
You are going to make it into a three angle undercut by taking about three really thin cookies out, about the same thickness of the chain. Thin enough you can twist the saw and snap 'em off. The third angle (vertical angle) should be 2" aprox. As you are making the vertical face, DO NOT go deeper that the top cut or so are defeating the purpose. This allows the fibers room to peal and not stretch and break prematurely. However It doesn't ensure the maximum thicknesses of holding wood it will peal with it. Secondly you can bore behind the holding wood to seal the deal when it's critical like the wife's car.

View attachment 551779
That knotch looks like it couldn't fail. I'd like to try it.
Good drawing from the Lakeview!
 
View attachment 551790
That knotch looks like it couldn't fail. I'd like to try it.
Good drawing from the Lakeview!

That's a great picture John.

Yeah I'm in beautiful "foreskin John" British Columbia lol
(Fort st John)
Guess I'm going on a pipe line as a DTA (Danger Tree assessor through the Band.
Now apperently they want me to cut too.
So far its just a nice hotel free food and $140 a day 'stand by' rate. Why do I want the job even to start....lol
That's a good gig for a tramp like me.

Seriously! They dont call it "Johnny hold me tight" for nutin'
I would always just exaggerate my undercut off set by 15° knowing it would break off and I would lose that 15°.
So when I was taught that cut, I didn't trust it and past the hole By a long shot and hung It up in a tree...haha. It works good. I don't usually need to bore behind the holding wood.
 
The old timers used to sight in the fall using the handlebar on a wrap saw ,before the factories put the lines across the saws we have today .

See circled areas for the sights i am referring to .
x27 440 SIGHTS.jpg
 
That's a "Johnny hold me tight" illustration.
The dotted line is your regular undercut.
You are going to make it into a three angle undercut by taking about three really thin cookies out, about the same thickness of the chain. Thin enough you can twist the saw and snap 'em off. The third angle (vertical angle) should be 2" aprox. As you are making the vertical face, DO NOT go deeper than the top cut or you are defeating the purpose. This allows the fibers room to peal and not stretch and break prematurely. However It doesn't ensure the maximum thicknesses of holding wood it will peal with it. Secondly you can bore behind the holding wood to seal the deal when it's critical, like the wife's car.

View attachment 551779
That's an interesting technique and good drawing. I understand how the longer fiber bend radius should reduce the pressure difference between the compression and tension side, but wanted to make sure this was a technique intended to help with chairing?
 
So give me some professional opinions on this fall. It all went well but.... Did I go about it correctly? What could have happened? I've been at it for a while, but just a weekend firewood cutter. This was a big, leaning, hollow sycamore. That's 3 red caution flags already
.View attachment 551391 It was good to fall it in the direction of the lean. I did not know how hollow it was. You could see from the bottom looking up
that it was hollow, you just see far up into it. I felt like there was some solid wood all the way around, but how much...? There was no question which direction it was going to fall. I cut a shallow face cut notch hoping to stay in the solid wood. After cutting the notch, I see that it is only solid on the outsides of the notch, It has punky wood in the middle of the notch. I started my bore about 1 1/2' from the notch. my 42" bar wasn't long enough to poke out the other side. I went ahead and cut toward the back of the tree until the bar came out the other side. I then went to the other side, put the bar in the kerf hole and cut that toward the notch, and stopped 4" away to create the hinge on that side. Then went back to the side I started on and cut toward the notch, Stopping 4" away again to finish the hinge.View attachment 551400 Now I just cut from inside my bore toward the back of the tree till it popped loose. Then I ran. So what do you think? Correct or not? I never measured it, but I'm guessing 48" tree.
Thanks for sharing.
All in all, good job using heavy leaner safe practises. Now the painful part..(just kidding. )
A few things are worth mentioning that a picture doesn't tell me, I will just run a little check list.

Always look at all your options.
taking it off the lean is another mitigater for a heavy front leaner with some side lean and may allow you to
put in a deeper undercut in some cases. It can also cause you trouble too of getting pinched in the low back cut in a case like this tree. Decision may come down to where the rot is, how ballance the forward lean is and how far its Leaning.

By the looks of the lean, shape of the stump and where the rot is the worst I don't think you could have really gotten a deeper undercut anyway. Looks like it was your best option by far. In order to make a decision on a tree with obvious heart rot you want to sound the shell with an axe or bore the back when back straps or wedging is needed.
• was you undercut open enough with no bypass cuts?
•getting away from the tree and not standing there watching it. (You definitely did that, as you said you ran...lol

I'm just curious about the big bar?
It's awfully big for falling In general.

*If you have a low side then make sure you deal with it FULLY! ; after the undercut, Even if it a balanced tree that means right to your holding wood and then out because you are not going back there. Get in the habit of that as those are the highest compressed fibers (pinch points) and you want to deal with them before you weaken the structure further on that side.
Doing that also puts you in an unfavorable position with a now weaker structure.
Think if it was on a steep hill and now you are 4 ft down.
Sometimes you may need to split the undercut and only cut half an undercut on the low side in order to keep the strength in the high side so you can cut the low side botton without getting pinched. THEN cut highside undercut. (For reference )

Deal with low side and then the other.
Don't try to bore through the whole tree on big diameter. You need an adiquate bar even if it was a solid tree. The most important thing is that the undercut is level because that sets up everything especially when workng from one side.
If you are going to eventually bore in behind the undercut then I would suggest basic setting of the saw from the side first so it's level length ways as well width. You shouldn't have to sight through your undercut for reference if your undercut is level so this means tip towards the front.
Once it's started in the cerf then take your hands off it step back and get down to eye level with the bar and see if it's good both ways. If its not good then repeat.
Next extend the shallow cerf to where you want your holding wood when bore and cut back to the highside of the back, (generally) as thats where your saftey trail usually would be (IF possible) repeat on high side back to your meating point.
Keep in mind; we plan the work and we work the plan
• Saftey trail to the postion of your closing point.
• stand at the top and picture yourself in the final position you would like to be cutting in.
•plan for the lower cerf ( IF there is one)
to suite that finally position.
So on a tree like that you could have released it from almost 6 ft away with a 36" bar If you needed. It's better to use it and not need it than need it and not have used it.

I do things a bit different and change it up to suite the situations. I also fall alot where there is only one reachable side.
so I get used to working from the top of the hill even if it means starting from the back down to the low side as far as I can reach then maybe I can cut a step in the stump or just a slot to put my fingers in
and then lean out and cut one hand. I will first cut as much as I can on the low side through the undercut behind the hinge. Then it gives me a better position to test for pinching and shortens my travel. If I feed a stick through there I will be able to see how far I have to cut to as I'm hanging from my fingers. Necessity is Morther of invention.
Let's all use good judgment and stay in our experience levels and work up from there. Two hand on the saw is a really Dam good plan. Start with those basics principles in mind and you will all find your styles from there. Difference situations call for slight different approaches. There is many reasons I would use the back strap
•tree that may be leaning a bit from a damage root system.
• rocky steep ground
• big tree on steep ground/downward fall
• heavy leaners
• saving the wood from fiber pull.

Good job again, nice level cuts. Good decision making skill

Ok maybe it was the painful part...long post
 
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