New vs. Used chainsaw

[stevetheboatguy]

Probably against the grain, but..... Why not a poulan 5020? They come with a 20" bar and any k095 small husky bar will fit. So why not save some cash and get a 5020 and a extra 16" bar combo? Probably be less than $200 for the saw and extra b&c. A carb adjustment tool can be had for a few dollars and then your golden..... Well until cad hit's and then you dive head first into pro saws .

I guess what I'm asking is. Why spend big bucks to get your feet wet? Save some $$$ and get some experience and then upgrade if you need to.


Steven

 

[Husky394268]

What size are the trees you will be cutting down? Are they hardwood or softwood mainly?

 

[PaulB84]

Great recomendation! Might add the Stihl line with the 251/271. Another great bang for the buck would be the poulan pro 5020, you probably won't get more saw for the money. Personally I favor the Dolmar 421 = Makita 4300 or Echo 490 by far in your situation!
Forgot to mention that the Dolmar name is being replaced by the Makita name. Same company absolut same saw just changed the name!

I find a sorry recomendation a clearly based on little knowledge and a lot of egomassage. Just for your information the Stihl 201 is the smallest pro saw Stihl makes with a electronically adjusted carb. And these saw equally easily burn up due to fuel or mechanical problems. Buying a pro saw for 3 acres is about as senseless it can get. Even if you drop the whole area and buck everything up into firewood size pieces, it won't take you longer than a few weeks. What will you do with your saw after that?

Used saws are only interesting IF you have the knowledge & tools to repair your equipment. If not repairs are VERY expensinve when taken into account the purchasing price. F.e. if your used saw cost 250$ purchase price and it needs a carb/fuel line replacement incl. some dampeners the repair bill will quickly arrive the 100$ bill size. With that in mind the Dolmar 421 or others mentioned are hardly (~50$) more or some even less expensive but include typically a year warrenty!

The recomendation proper training & proper ppe = personall protection equipment (chaps, helmet with eye & ear protection, etc.) are far the best sofar.

I would choose one of the stronger 40-45cc saws in the 2.5-3hp range. Good luck & safe cutting.

7

Jeez, what is your problem?

I didn't bother mentioning the 201 as its an arborist saw.

As far as 3 acres not being able to justify a pro saw, how would a smaller saw be more appropriate? You're saying a smaller saw would take longer than a few weeks so you and your saw would be busy longer? What does any saw do when its not cutting?? Sits in the garage until the next time you grab it right?

I recommended "one of the stronger saws in the 40-45cc range and 2.5-3hp (42.6cc and 3.1hp, since you seem to enjoy the details so much)

"Equally easily burn up due to fuel or mechanical issues".

Huh? I bet they don't do well if they get struck by lightning either. What are you saying here? Bad gas or getting run-over by a skidsteer is rough on any saw? The mtronic compensates for a lean condition. If a seal fails, its colder that day etc he doesn't have to worry about burning the saw up I would call that a plus for someone with limited chainsaw knowledge. Yes, he still needs to learn to tune by ear and pay attention to the signals the equipment is giving him but it's gonna be easier.

The only reason I recommended that particular 241 is it was sent to a reputable porter brand new and has only a few tanks thru it. I've seen pics of the p&c, it would be about as close to brand new but still used pricing as one can get

A bone stock 241cm just sold in the classifieds for $425 if memory serves. That's not far off even the cheapest recommendations given here.

Oh and we have no idea what the OPs 3 acres look like. Could be densly packed hardwoods, or it could be a fairway. I'd rather have a little more saw than I need vs not enough.

Sorry to hijack OP.

 

[7sleeper]

@PaulB84 ,

For me the 201 back handle saw is not an arborist saw but one of the best limbing saws in it's class. What is interesting is that in the US it is in the "Farmer class saws" area on the Stihl homepage and in Europe and as far as I have seen in the rest of the world in the "Pro class saws" are. This is what I am talking about.
https://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/farm-and-ranch-saws/ms201cem/

One of the major problems with AT/MT saws and air leaks is that until problems are noticeable the saws have kept compensating and compensating and the user never notices anything although problems are already accumulating. And by the time the user notices something, major damage is rather typical.
On the other hand classic non auto adjustable carb saws expose problems quite quickly and even noticable to the beginner with the saw "not running right". Of course there is never a garentee that the user will do the right thing and turn off the saw and have it repaired. At around 13500 rpm the time frame to stop so that everything is unharmed is rather limited. So continuing cutting up the rest of the truckload is not a smart thing to do.
Further having to adjust your saw for every change in air temperature is simply not reallity. Millions if not billions of trees have been cut down without having the carb ever adjusted between summer and winter and the saws never burned up prematurely. Also logger members have mentioned staying under 1500 feet height difference they never notice any problems. Which is a rather untypical cutting scenario for the homeowner.

Of course you are right about the tree types of the op. No one knows. But if we have the situation you discribe, to be honest, I would seriously discourage the OP with his inexperience to cut down any of them. Large trees can really quickly kill one when having a few tons crashing down!

7

 

[Mad Professor]

The only new saws I've ever owned are the old homies my Dad brought and I grew up with, and my 066 I use for milling.

I've been working on everything that runs on gasoline since I was a kid and most of the time never had money to afford new, most were not running and/or needed rebuilds when I acquired them. I got to learn a lot about saws and I think the pro saws made from the 80s-2010 are easier to work on yet still of a good quality and usability by todays standards.

If you go used , can: you tell what to look for?, work on things yourself? have tools? are parts still available either OEM or quality aftermarket?

If not look for a dealer nearby you can trust and has a good service dept.

 

[PaulB84]

@PaulB84 ,

For me the 201 back handle saw is not an arborist saw but one of the best limbing saws in it's class. What is interesting is that in the US it is in the "Farmer class saws" area on the Stihl homepage and in Europe and as far as I have seen in the rest of the world in the "Pro class saws" are. This is what I am talking about.
https://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/farm-and-ranch-saws/ms201cem/

One of the major problems with AT/MT saws and air leaks is that until problems are noticeable the saws have kept compensating and compensating and the user never notices anything although problems are already accumulating. And by the time the user notices something, major damage is rather typical.
On the other hand classic non auto adjustable carb saws expose problems quite quickly and even noticable to the beginner with the saw "not running right". Of course there is never a garentee that the user will do the right thing and turn off the saw and have it repaired. At around 13500 rpm the time frame to stop so that everything is unharmed is rather limited. So continuing cutting up the rest of the truckload is not a smart thing to do.
Further having to adjust your saw for every change in air temperature is simply not reallity. Millions if not billions of trees have been cut down without having the carb ever adjusted between summer and winter and the saws never burned up prematurely. Also logger members have mentioned staying under 1500 feet height difference they never notice any problems. Which is a rather untypical cutting scenario for the homeowner.

Of course you are right about the tree types of the op. No one knows. But if we have the situation you discribe, to be honest, I would seriously discourage the OP with his inexperience to cut down any of them. Large trees can really quickly kill one when having a few tons crashing down!

7

What does any of that have to do with my recommendation of a 241cm being such a terrible idea it could only have come from "little knowledge and lots of ego massage"?

Later in your reply you state that he should be looking for a saw in exactly the class I mentioned.

In a used saw, the mtronic or auto tune is a comforting thing in that you know someone who shouldn't be trusted with a screwdriver hasnt been adjusting the carb. Is it a guarantee it doesn't have another issue? Absolutely not, it merely eliminates one possible way of getting screwed on a used saw which the OP clearly has reservations about

Also, if the mtronic or auto tune is doing its job and compensating for an air leak, and therefore the saw is not running lean, what "major damage" would be "accumulating"? Yes, you still have to find the issue eventually but this is like saying "run-flat tires are worthless, if I get a flat I'd rather know immediately and change it on the side of the road than find the problem once I'm safe and sound at home".

Maybe ive got my thin skin on today but your original post seemed aggressively personal for no reason. I'm sure the OP appreciates opposing viewpoints, as he solicited the opinions but there are ways of disagreeing without degenerating into mudslinging

/Endrant

 

[7sleeper]

What does any of that have to do with my recommendation of a 241cm being such a terrible idea it could only have come from "little knowledge and lots of ego massage"?

Later in your reply you state that he should be looking for a saw in exactly the class I mentioned.

In a used saw, the mtronic or auto tune is a comforting thing in that you know someone who shouldn't be trusted with a screwdriver hasnt been adjusting the carb. Is it a guarantee it doesn't have another issue? Absolutely not, it merely eliminates one possible way of getting screwed on a used saw which the OP clearly has reservations about

Also, if the mtronic or auto tune is doing its job and compensating for an air leak, and therefore the saw is not running lean, what "major damage" would be "accumulating"? Yes, you still have to find the issue eventually but this is like saying "run-flat tires are worthless, if I get a flat I'd rather know immediately and change it on the side of the road than find the problem once I'm safe and sound at home".

Maybe ive got my thin skin on today but your original post seemed aggressively personal for no reason. I'm sure the OP appreciates opposing viewpoints, as he solicited the opinions but there are ways of disagreeing without degenerating into mudslinging

/Endrant

Hi endrant,

Interesting name btw. Maybe my original post was a tad aggressiv, will have to change that, sorry!

My mentioning of "ego massage" was going with the 241 brand new from the dealer. I find the saw a rather large tad expensive for what it offers when considering regular brand new prices.

Good point on the "user induced carb damage" in a used setting. Further the buyer can always go to a dealer and have the REAL run time hours read out of the software without depending on what the seller says.

What I am talking about AT/MT is that you don't notice anything is wrong with your saw even if you have an air leak because the e-adjust-carb is compensating all along. And you continue to use your saw like no air leak is there at all. If the air leak progressis then the moment comes along where no e-adjust-carb can compensate any more and the major damage in imanent.

Of course having or not having run flat tires and changing or not changing your tires is simply a personal standpoint. For me I prefer to change the tire as soon as possible.

7

 

[Rockjock]

I believe that PPE and Proper training are the first things a new saw user should invest in. Also dealer support is paramount. Does not matter what saw he gets if the dealer support is not there then its a nonstarter. I have said it many times before but around here people buy saws that have dealer support. OP I would seek out a dealer and get some insight that way.

 

[jd548esco72]

this sort of depends on how good a mechanic you are-- a good pro class saw used has some advantages-- like lots of parts, OEM and AM everywhere --so if you do get a bad one -- it ain't expensive to overhaul the thing if you can DIY the job. the pro class saws are made to be repairable and most repair work is a snap, and nothing homeowner class is gonna run like a 70cc stihl or husky.

if you can't do your own repairs-- that is gonna leave you with a new saw -- which one to get depends on the dealership mostly.

since your job is so small-- you could probably get away with a homeowner or farmer type of saw-- like a husky 455/460 -- i'm not a fan of the box store specials

now i like echos and dolmars -- if you have a dealer near by take a look at their farm & ranch line -- one of the great things about echos is they seem to hold their tune with on and off again use-- i think dolmars will hold thier tune as well with weeks of off use-- though i haven't had my makita/dolmar long enough to test that for being a fact-- i'm sure there are plenty of dolmar/makita owners on here that can say how well they hold up from experience.

 

[OM617YOTA]

7 year old thread.....