Used chip truck checklist

[Chipps]

I operate a small niche business chipping brush piles and blow downs (or simple takedowns) using an older 12" bandit with a Cummins 3.9 and towed by a 1/2 ton. 99% of my customers have been OK blowing chips back into the woods or in a pile for use, but I am marketing now to landscapers for spring cleanup debris chipping, and I expect that I'll provide a roadside disposal of materials they pile. I'm considering F-550 based chip dumps and would be grateful for advice on areas and issues to evaluate, especially with the 6 liter powerstroke. My budget is $20k or hopefully well under, and I'm sharp mechanically but inexperienced with diesel engines. I'm hoping to build the business to a level where a 25,900 gvw is needed, but don't want to saddle my business with the maintenance costs until I know I need it. Honestly, I did not know about the trailer mounted chippers/chip dump combo until I read some forums and like that for this application, but I'll need to know I have a lot of consistent buisness before investing in such a narrowly focused machine. Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Tenderfoot]

The 6.0, you can find lots of write up on them elsewhere and I suggest you go to one of the ford diesel forums. The F550s are pretty good IMO, but I do know of a Chevy c4500 for sale in Westport if you are interested. Pretty low miles. The 6.0s are not really a horror show, but are expensive. Expect about 2x the routine maintenance cost of a gasser truck, maybe a little better

An F350/450 Chassis cab may be enough for you if you are a one man show. Cannot fill up an F550 in the day as a one man show, but probably can as a two or three man crew. Be forewarned, the drivers seat on most chip trucks I have seen has been shredded by being poked with a Scrench every time the driver wiggles, guy driving usually has one in his back pocket. Just something to be aware of. You are basically just looking at a dump truck and I would check for normal dump truck things. Brakes, leaks, tires, hacked repairs etc.

 

[Chipps]

Thanks Tenderfoot-yeah, I'm already assuming I'll get a rebuild of the seat. I'll have at least one ground guy and have at times used up to 4 on a crew when there is a lot of dragging to do. Surprised to learn about the maintenance costs. More stuff breaks more often, or parts just costs more? Appreciate the checklist too. Sure, I'd be interested in checking out the Westport Chevy if you would PM me. Thanks

 

[Tenderfoot]

Thanks Tenderfoot-yeah, I'm already assuming I'll get a rebuild of the seat. I'll have at least one ground guy and have at times used up to 4 on a crew when there is a lot of dragging to do. Surprised to learn about the maintenance costs. More stuff breaks more often, or parts just costs more? Appreciate the checklist too. Sure, I'd be interested in checking out the Westport Chevy if you would PM me. Thanks

Things break just as often, but cost more. 6.0s are very maintenance sensitive. If you treat them right, they last very well but are picky babies about filters and fluids. Ask them what brand filters they use. If it isnt OEM, Wix, Baldwin or NAPA I would walk away.
Oil changes take about 4 gallons and fuel filters are $20 every 10k miles, oil filter is $25 or $30 every 3k etc. Injectors are about $250 or $300 a hole, with labor. Turbos go etc. Diesel is not cheap. If you don't need the power or don't get a good deal on it I would not buy one, personally. In that weight class they do make sense to me, but for a normal pickemup truck I cannot justify them.

 

[bulletpruf]

Agree with Tenderfoot. Diesels have awesome torque, get great mileage compared to a gas engine in the same vehicle, and run forever. But they are expensive to keep up.

I've had 7.3's, but have researched 6.0's as well. Bottom line is that folks have figured out how to make a 6.0 live a long life, so I wouldn't be too scared of one.

 

[Chipps]

I might rethink my choices here. The 550 requirement came on the advice of a larger tree service owner I broker work to, and I suppose I should account for his bias or more capacity/fewer dump trips. Diesel made sense considering my budget gets me a higher mileage truck. I suppose I could get in smaller and less expensively on a 350/450 gas and upgrade when the business needs justify it. I'll open up my search a bit for those as well. There are worse things than upgrading later because the business grew

 

[bulletpruf]

I might rethink my choices here. The 550 requirement came on the advice of a larger tree service owner I broker work to, and I suppose I should account for his bias or more capacity/fewer dump trips. Diesel made sense considering my budget gets me a higher mileage truck. I suppose I could get in smaller and less expensively on a 350/450 gas and upgrade when the business needs justify it. I'll open up my search a bit for those as well. There are worse things than upgrading later because the business grew

From my research, if you don't need 600 ft/lbs of torque, then you really ought to be looking at gas. That's oversimplified, but a few thoughts -- the Chevy 8.2 gas has some serious torque. Not much less than a 7.3 diesel. The Ford V10 has a very strong following, too (but steer clear of the 5.4). And if you're looking at something older, there's always the 7.4/454 or the Ford 460. All torque monsters that may not be very good on gas mileage, but properly geared, there's not much they won't pull. And the maintenance won't kill you, and, in my experience, it's less complicated on a gas engine.

I've had 3/4 ton Fords with 460's, 7.3 Excursion, 1500 and 2500 Suburbans and Yukons, etc. I loves me a 7.3 diesel, but when I get back to the states, I'm buying a Suburban with the 8.2 or an Excursion with a V10.

 

[Oldmaple]

I have a 6.0 powerstroke in a F450. Love the power but you will have head gasket (due to undersized head bolts) and egr problems. Also as a 6.0 ages you will have o-ring problems in the oil delivery system that powers the injectors. This will start as hard starting when warm and progress. High pressure oil pump issues that drive this system are also a problem, buried deep into the engine which means big $$$ when replacing.

 

[Chipps]

Thanks Oldmaple. I'm going to be running on thin money first year, so don't really want to pay for somebody elses deferred maintenance. 350/450 gas sounds like a good starting point to keep me running, and best thing that can happen is to need an upgrade soon

 

[Oldmaple]

Probably a good choice. I had a 93 f-350 dump for a chipper truck for 15 years. 5.8 liter gas engine, worked fine loaded and pulling a chipper. Last couple of years would heat up climbing log hills with a load but never overheated.

 

[gorman]

If you get a 6.0 you have to get it "bulletproofed". Costs range from 4 to 7 grand but it adds a little value to the truck and you avoid catastrophic failure down the road.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Things break just as often, but cost more. 6.0s are very maintenance sensitive. If you treat them right, they last very well but are picky babies about filters and fluids. Ask them what brand filters they use. If it isnt OEM, Wix, Baldwin or NAPA I would walk away.
Oil changes take about 4 gallons and fuel filters are $20 every 10k miles, oil filter is $25 or $30 every 3k etc. Injectors are about $250 or $300 a hole, with labor. Turbos go etc. Diesel is not cheap. If you don't need the power or don't get a good deal on it I would not buy one, personally. In that weight class they do make sense to me, but for a normal pickemup truck I cannot justify them.

Why would you change oil that often? I do 300hrs on equipment, 10,000 miles on trucks. 5w40 Rotella.

 

[Tenderfoot]

Why would you change oil that often? I do 300hrs on equipment, 10,000 miles on trucks. 5w40 Rotella.

Because that is what International calls for in severe duty (i.e. what a chip truck is going to do) and the fact it is sheared down to 30w oil by 3k miles. Its not a semi or a more oil tolerant engine.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Dunno, no issues here, have 9 Ford diesels from 7.3IDI to 6.7L

 

[Tenderfoot]

Dunno, no issues here, have 9 Ford diesels from 7.3IDI to 6.7L

But do you have a 6.0? They use HEUI injection, not a mechanical pump or common rail. You literally cannot not fire the injectors if you have bad enough oil in it from not changing it. After batteries and glow plugs, the first thing to do with a 6.0 with no check engine light starting hard is to change the oil.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

But do you have a 6.0? They use HEUI injection, not a mechanical pump or common rail. You literally cannot not fire the injectors if you have bad enough oil in it from not changing it. After batteries and glow plugs, the first thing to do with a 6.0 with no check engine light starting hard is to change the oil.

Yes, 2, f550 service truck and f450 flatbed.

2 7.3 IDI
2 7.3 non intercooled (1996&1997)
1 7.3 intercooled
2 6.0s
1 6.4
1 6.7

(Not all mine... list is mine plus shop trucks. I just have 4 trucks today, 2 Fords)... but in any case, not my first road-dayo. They've all been pretty reliable. One IDI truck is on engine #3, but the truck has about 500k and is worked hard.
The 6.4L truck is in the weeds, needs an $18,000 engine, cost more than the truck was bought for.

 

[Tenderfoot]

Yes, 2, f550 service truck and f450 flatbed.

2 7.3 IDI
2 7.3 non intercooled (1996&1997)
1 7.3 intercooled
2 6.0s
1 6.4
1 6.7

(Not all mine... list is mine plus shop trucks. I just have 4 trucks today, 2 Fords)... but in any case, not my first road-dayo. They've all been pretty reliable. One IDI truck is on engine #3, but the truck has about 500k and is worked hard.
The 6.4L truck is in the weeds, needs an $18,000 engine, cost more than the truck was bought for.

Im really suprised you have been able to get away with that. I really would not feel OK with that long a drain interval in anything like that. I think ford calls for a 5k drain in the 6.4s and the 6.7s for 'severe duty'.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

There's no "get away with" it. 10k is being conservative actually.

 

[Tenderfoot]

There's no "get away with" it. 10k is being conservative actually.

Do you ever do any oil analysis? Be interested to see what a lab says. I've found under driving conditions where I am, the 3500-4000 mile mark fuel dilution gets a little high on the trucks.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Do you ever do any oil analysis? Be interested to see what a lab says. I've found under driving conditions where I am, the 3500-4000 mile mark fuel dilution gets a little high on the trucks.

Yes, a few years ago we did. Ran it up to 25k miles, with changing oil filter at 10 and 20k and it came back fine still. Also did a 24v CTD and 1.9L TDI with similar results. That was using 5w40 Schaeffer on the CTD and Rotella on the TDI, Delo in the Ferd.

The "severe" service is pretty much worst case scenario. Cheap oil, and just running the crap out of it in terrible conditions.

I'm sure I have the papers somewhere but I'm not digging through boxes in the shed to find old paperwork.