100 cord by Christmas (?)

[sirbuildalot]

I guess one reason I dont get into the firewood business is because I doubt anybody hates handleing wood more than me. The market is certainly here for a wood business. People pay all kinds of prices for little pickup loads of green fresh cut and split wood. Those selling firewood dont believe in tieing up their money long enough for the wood to dry. Someone selling quality prepared firewood around here could get rich, as Long as they can produce a quality product and deliver the wood when its needed. It would take the proper equipment and a major investment up front.

With that said, I have looked at every kind, brand, type of wood processing equipment there is on the internet. I have yet to see anything I think I would like to use for a firewood business. The closest thing I think would fit my wants would be a full blown processor, and I dont like any of the normally seen processors. It seems all of them take to much support equipment to keep them working. What is normally sold, usually are very limited to the size of wood they can process. I like the Packfix that Sandhill uses to catch his splits. I would want a very large shed to stack the packfix packaged wood under. I would want a truck with a knuckle boom loader with pallet forks instead of a grapple, to load and unload those pallets for delivery. I would want the bed of that truck to be a dump. If I was putting up a wood lot, I would probably want a set of scales, buy my firewood by weight and sell it that way, no overages or underages that way. Those log trucks loads that aint what they are supposed to be will be told on when they cross the scales and you pay for what you get, not what they say they have. No shortage on the selling side either, sell it by the lb and show them a weight ticket. Mixed wood produces the same btu's per lb as a lb of premium hardwoods. Your selling heat and btu's, wood is just the means to get there. At anyrate, my goal would be to reduce the amount of manual labor as much as possible, and increase production with the least number of personal and you can increase profit with a smaller amount of product.

I think its a great idea, but major investment is an understatement. What would a couple full size truck scales including setup, a big building (sorry, but if you're buying a Posch and scales you better plan on hundreds of cords and a huge building to house those splits, not a large shed), a truck with a Knuckleboom, a Posch, and enough land to use it all cost. Then we have scale calibration, fuel, help, taxes, etc. I have to believe this setup is going to run someone at least a half a million. What kind of return investment are we talking if your making $60 a cord profit? At 300 cord a year it would take almost 28 years to pay for itself. There is a reason no firewood sellers do it this way. Its too expensive to setup. Realistically I could do a re-roof on a 2 day weekend and profit a grand after paying the help. With minimal equipment or overhead. I cant see selling firewood as being that profitable. It only seems profitable if you were a tree company and already had free wood from jobs. Paying for loglength means minimum profit leftover for you. Then you have the customers who will complain no matter what.

You shorted me!
This isn't seasoned enough!
I only wanted oak!
You were supposed to stack it!
You made a mess of my driveway!

 

[Sandhill Crane]

Bundles...
kiln dried???

 

[Jefflac02]

There is a local company that does sawmill lumber that also does split firewood delivery. From what I know of his setup, they keep pulp wood type logs at a separate lot for the next year. Then they bring them in and cut them and split them. They use a conveyor to load their 1 ton dump truck for deliveries or they pile it and move it with a skid steer that they also use to load their dump if its piled.

He uses his labor to cut firewood when there is downtime throughout, so it's not just a seasonal job for him. I would say he delivers 750-1000 cord a year on his dump
Truck. He is always running with the dump loaded to somewhere. Not sure what he charges per load or how much is on a load. But I can tell you there is very little handling of the wood. He delivers to the site and dumps it where asked.

Jeff


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sandhill Crane]

I love hearing how others do things.
I had two truck loads of logs from last year. The bark comes off in three foot lengths when handling. Cut and split, you would think it was just pulled from a river. It does seem to be drying quicker than usual though. Maybe because the bark is off, but I've assumed seasoning to be longitudinal wicking of moisture more than radial. I do not think logs season. Cut in rounds, then yes if air/sun is getting to it. If on end on the ground, then no, it will rot.
I buy logs, and work from there. It's kind of a bad start right from the get-go.
Reducing handling doesn't make up for that...but is still necessary to increase volume. Lots of obstacles with increased volume. I may just have to let go of the idea of 'seasoning'.

 

[Tenderfoot]

I love hearing how others do things.
I had two truck loads of logs from last year. The bark comes off in three foot lengths when handling. Cut and split, you would think it was just pulled from a river. It does seem to be drying quicker than usual though. Maybe because the bark is off, but I've assumed seasoning to be longitudinal wicking of moisture more than radial. I do not think logs season. Cut in rounds, then yes if air/sun is getting to it. If on end on the ground, then no, it will rot.
I buy logs, and work from there. It's kind of a bad start right from the get-go.
Reducing handling doesn't make up for that...but is still necessary to increase volume. Lots of obstacles with increased volume. I may just have to let go of the idea of 'seasoning'.

I have started to do my 'seasoning' in round form. It seems to work well enough and I can store a lot more wood in the same space. Just split with demand and do my deliveries Thursday-Friday-Saturday. But I do a lot lower volume then you do.

 

[cantoo]

I store my 12' Ash logs in piles on scrap logs until I can get time to cut them into rounds. I try to cut them into rounds and leave them sit for a while to season. I drop them off the conveyor and level the piles off with my loader to get more sun and wind. I do sell some right away but most sit for at least a month or so. These logs were cut over the summer, cut into rounds, sat in rounds for a week and then I split them all over a 2 week period. I have no idea how much is here but I've sold approx. 10 loads out of this pile and it's barely half gone. I sell by the trailer load, don't care how much is in the trailer but a load is $x, take it or leave it.
I do my firewooding in batches because I think it gets more done in a shorter amount of time. No setting up multiple times to do different tasks.
I cut trees down and haul to a pile until I have 200 or so logs piled up, they dry a little in this form. This takes me several months. Then I use my loader and forks and put 3 logs on at a time, mark and cut the logs into 16" rounds. I use the loader to push the rounds into low piles. This takes me a couple or weekends and nights to do which helps to dry them. Then I set up my 4 way splitter and conveyor and start splitting. This again takes me a couple of weekends and a few nights to do. Doing it in batches also makes you push abit to get the task done. Then my son does the deliveries, we hand load onto the conveyor which drops the splits into my dump trailer. The trailer sits at his workplace on a busy highway with a large sign on it saying $X per load delivered.

 

[muddstopper]

My sons (9 & 12) might compete with you for this title. If you pout and cry when it is time to go to the woodlot, then you are definitely a contender.

Handling the wood multiple times does suck.

I am definitely a contender. My wife drags me down there kicking and screaming all the way.

 

[cantoo]

Missed the last pic.

 

[muddstopper]

Folks where I am expect it, but when they get it they are shocked. Its not abnormal for folks around here to say 'no seasoned wood after X date' unless they are selling $300 face cords.

Do you have any more information on that fellow? He sounds like he knows his wood and may be worth emulating if he has been at it for so long with a degree of success.

I have no ideal how long he has been in business, a long time is my best guess.I have know of him for 10 or 15 years. He is set up on a old sawmill that has closed down. The scales where already in place, as was the kiln. I suspect he rents the old mill, so he hasnt tied up a lot of money in buildings and kilns and such. I also dont know who is buying all his firewood bundles. The rest of his operation is pretty straight forward. Firewood processor, with a couple of smaller splitters for resplits. Knuckle boom mounted on a truck for handleing the logs. A long conveyor for moving the splits to the baskets. Forklift to move the baskets. There are no stacks or piles of wood around his place. it either goes into a metal basket for the kiln, or off the conveyor onto the back of a truck for delivery. I have never seen his bundling operation, but they are usually either processing wood or everybody is down at the bundling shed. I am reasonably sure that some firewood seller are buying from him to resell, or maybe they are delivering for him, that I am not sure about.

 

[muddstopper]

Bundles...
kiln dried???

I am pretty sure if your hauling out of state, all firewood has to be kiln dried to kill off any bugs.

 

[muddstopper]

I think its a great idea, but major investment is an understatement. What would a couple full size truck scales including setup, a big building (sorry, but if you're buying a Posch and scales you better plan on hundreds of cords and a huge building to house those splits, not a large shed), a truck with a Knuckleboom, a Posch, and enough land to use it all cost. Then we have scale calibration, fuel, help, taxes, etc. I have to believe this setup is going to run someone at least a half a million. What kind of return investment are we talking if your making $60 a cord profit? At 300 cord a year it would take almost 28 years to pay for itself. There is a reason no firewood sellers do it this way. Its too expensive to setup. Realistically I could do a re-roof on a 2 day weekend and profit a grand after paying the help. With minimal equipment or overhead. I cant see selling firewood as being that profitable. It only seems profitable if you were a tree company and already had free wood from jobs. Paying for loglength means minimum profit leftover for you. Then you have the customers who will complain no matter what.

You shorted me!
This isn't seasoned enough!
I only wanted oak!
You were supposed to stack it!
You made a mess of my driveway!

Well it seems your pretty negative on my ideal. Dont blame you, if you have never thought big, its hard to plan big. This is certainly not a business plan for a part time firewooder, or someone looking to pick up some extra change to supplement their regular steady income. I would guesstimate if you had to buy everything new, your half million dollar estimate might be close. I havent tried to put any numbers to anything I have suggested, but I do know I wouldnt have to buy new equipment to make it work. I wouldnt have to buy any land either. there are plenty of vacant buildings about everywhere I go. Large factories that have shut down, relocated, left the country, what ever. Plenty of old pulpwood yards that have shut down too. Scales can be bought pretty reasonable. I know where a set is now just setting in the weeds that can probably be bought for scrap. Old logging knuckle booms are setting in the weeds everywhere. Biggest investment would probably be a really good used processor. If you kiln dried the wood for out of state sales, then that would also be a major investment, but if you are air drying and saleing local, all you need is someplace to put the baskets of wood. I would guess if you want to sale a 1000 cord a year, it is going to take some up front money to stock your wood yard. At any rate, I believe I could setup such a operation for a lot less than the 1/2million dollars you are suggesting.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

Unless your wood supply is free, it is a struggle to keep the hours low enough to make it work.

 

[Tenderfoot]

Unless your wood supply is free, it is a struggle to keep the hours low enough to make it work.

If you deal with tree service wood sending a job or a 6 pack, even a gatorade or hot coffee to the guy driving makes things go easier. Ive been getting some real good wood from a couple local guys since I sent a couple jobs their way. Always try to make life easy for the guy dropping it off. Ask for it in spring and summer time when they cant get rid of wood. Ive been lucky enough that I can give them specs (22 in dia, no longer then 18in or log length, as little metal as you can) and they are happy to do it. Your area may be different and you may not be as lucky to find such flexible guys. But I am one of a few folks taking more then a cord a year so they remember me and know I will always make room for more wood in the spring when they cant be rid of it.

 

[muddstopper]

Unless your wood supply is free, it is a struggle to keep the hours low enough to make it work.

wood prices are all over the place for sure. I can and have bought 8 cord truck loads for $400 mixed hardwoods, but our area is mostly oaks. Processed thats about $1600. Sure there is cost in processing, but I am pretty sure I could squeeze out a small profit from the $1200 over the cost of the wood. I always sort of figured "If" I got in the firewood business, I would buy a truck load, process and sale half of it and then buy another load and repeat until I got my lot full of ready to sale wood. I probably wouldnt last long in the business tho, I have a habit of telling whiners and the pain in the butt types off and I wont jump thru hoops trying to satisfy their every whim. It is what it is, take it that way or get the heck off my lot.

 

[Tenderfoot]

wood prices are all over the place for sure. I can and have bought 8 cord truck loads for $400 mixed hardwoods, but our area is mostly oaks. Processed thats about $1600. Sure there is cost in processing, but I am pretty sure I could squeeze out a small profit from the $1200 over the cost of the wood. I always sort of figured "If" I got in the firewood business, I would buy a truck load, process and sale half of it and then buy another load and repeat until I got my lot full of ready to sale wood. I probably wouldnt last long in the business tho, I have a habit of telling whiners and the pain in the butt types off and I wont jump thru hoops trying to satisfy their every whim. It is what it is, take it that way or get the heck off my lot.

If you have trouble with whiners I would not sell after October or early November. The earlier the customer buys the better they are, typically. Early season types tend to be more informed and ask the right questions and will not waste your time. The closer to Christmas they buy the worse they get, then all of the sudden they get nicer again.

 

[absrio]

I like this guys method for delivering the bags I know your set up is different but maybe the pallet jack(?) @5:19 could work for your set up? IDK. just an idea.