361 oil pump...

[Country1]

Something else I notices weird about this new saw, so I wanted to ask. Second time cutting with my 361, it seemed to me that there wasn't enough oil getting to the B/C. The chain was dry and had burnt pitch on it. I was bucking an 17" red oak. I had already check the screw and it was set to the "E". I had thought that would be about right for running a 18" bar. (Plus when I bought the saw it was brought out to me dripping with oil from when the guy ran it with a tach minutes before.) I did the oil test by holding the tip a few inches away from a log face at 1/2 throttle and did see a little oil after a few seconds, but not much (not like I'm used to). So, I adjusted the screw to full open and did the test again. Got a little more oil, a few bursts at a time (chain still fairly dry). I bucked another piece and still the chain seemed very dry. I would think with the oiler turned all the way up and only an 18" bar, oil would be excessive and all over the inside of the sprocket cover. At the end of my cutting (1/2 hour longer) this was not the case. I took the bar off to see if there was a blockage and everything was clean (saws still new).

So I took it by the dealer this morning. My normal guy wasn't there, but I talked with another guy and he gave it to a tech to look at. He ran it in the back, came out and said it's fine. I could hear him run it and it was only for 15 seconds or so, but this time the chain was coated with a good amount of oil. So I walked out scratching my head...

Any thoughts? All my other Stihl's put out a lot more oil and I still manage to "blue" the bars so that's what's got me worried about this one. I want this saw to be right and then not think about it anymore so I can get to cutting... I remember a post about installing a higher output pump, but thought that was only needed for a 25" bar.

Thanks for any help.

Rick

 

[polexie]

You won't need the high output pump, yours must be ok with that size of a bar. I thought i had read that some 361's in the States had problems with the oilpumps but i could be wrong.

You will get the right answer pretty soon overhere!

Good luck with it,

Lex

 

[Country1]

I thought i had read that some 361's in the States had problems with the oilpumps but i could be wrong.

Lex

Someone tell me more about this please.

 

[Stihl here]

I have mine turned up all the way with a 18'' bar. They are stingy on bar lube, its normal for that saw.

 

[Work Saw Collector]

I run 20" bars on mine and the oil maxed out, it will put a little on the face of a log when testing but not like I want I have thought about the better pump myself for now I'm just running it.

 

[clutch25]

Mine seems to oil fine...with an 18" bar.

What temps were you cutting in? What type of bar oil are you using?

I have been cutting with mine down to ~10F and use Fleet Farm bar oil and have only cut oak with it.

 

[windthrown]

I have no problems with either of my 361s oiling a 25 inch bar. At 28 inches, they start to have problems keeping them oiled. An 18" bar should not be a problem. Clean the bar oil ports and run the saw w/o the bar to check that the oiler is working right. If you are cutting in cold conditions, it may not oil right until the saw is good and hot and the oil in the tank has had time to warm up. This time of year, summer bar oil can get treally thick and gooey.

If you need a bigger oiler in the 361, you can replace the 361 oil pump with the full 460R (full wrap) high capacity oil pump assembly for about about $85. The Stihl part number is:

1128 640 3250 oil pump assembly

You can also keep the 361 oil pump and just replace the oil piston and control bolt with the 460R parts. The Stihl part numbers for these are:

1128 647 0602 oil pump piston (about $27)
1128 647 4803 oil pump control bolt (about $4)

I have a high output oiler on my 044 and that thing just gushes the oil out. I have it turned down to medium low... with a 25 inch bar on it.

 

[Country1]

Hmmmm, we have 3 with low oil and 2 that are good...
Sounds like a problem to me...

It was warm here the day I was cutting, in the upper 60's. I'm using Stihl normal or summer bar oil. Never had a problem running it in the coldest temps here in any of my other saws.

When checking oil output, I'm not sure how much to look for. I guess I could test my 026, see how much it put out and compare...

It just worried me when the chain was all gummy and burnt looking after doing a little cutting. I've seen my chains look like that before, but it was after a lot of hard cutting in hardwood that was much wider than the bar.

 

[billyjoejr]

Is the chain sharp?
A dull chain would get hot fast and cook the the oil.

My 361 puts out 3/4 tank of oil to 1 tank of fuel. Turned to highest position.

 

[Country1]

Yeah the chain is new and sharp.

3/4 a tank of oil to a whole tank of fuel. Yeah, that's pretty much what I get with my other saws.

I'll see if the 361 is the same, now that I got it turned all the way up. I'll be cutting this weekend.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[blsnelling]

I don't believe there's a problem at all with the 361 oil pump. It's a problem of perception. A lot of guys are used to the old school saws that really pump the oil. Your 361 will not do that and does not need to. I doubt there's anything wrong with your saw. Leave the oiler on high and go use it. Just keep an eye on your bar. You will not have an oil soaked chain though.

 

[Lakeside53]

Many will see 1/2 tank oil to a tank of gas. That enough for a 20 inch bar. Comparing to an 026 isn't really valid - they gush oil, and if not the "pro version", pump it even when the saw is idling (which tends to build up in the bar groove).

At full output (and at 10,000rpm), the 361 is 15.5cc/minute. A stock 460 is 17, and a full wrap about 24. (IIRC... I gave the number in another post a long time ago). The full wrap version is mainly for the softwood industry on the west cost where longer bars are used, hense the higher output.

 

[wood4heat]

I hear what your saying. I run a 25" bar almost exclusively in Doug Fir and I get the same burnt pitch on the chain and bar you describe. I've got it turned all the way up and the chain appears dry but if I pull on it I can see it has oil in the bar groove. Stingy for sure but it seems to be sufficient.

 

[CentaurG2]

Of all my complaints about this saw, oil output is not one of them. My 361 puts out plenty of oil, easily on par with my huskeys. I run 30weight (summer) oil all year long no problems. You want a saw that does not oil, you should try my ms440!

 

[Country1]

Ok it all make a lot more sense now. You know, I had that thought. This is my 1st new saw in a long time. Last new one I got was the 026 and that was around 1999-2000. Others are early 90's. I thought maybe theses new saw just don't put out the oil like the old ones. So I guess that's the case. If you're used to the older saws you notice a lack of oil, but if your used to the newer one it's ok...

Thanks for the replies. I feel a lot better about it now. I'm going to stop worrying and go cut some wood!

 

[Lakeside53]

I hear what your saying. I run a 25" bar almost exclusively in Doug Fir and I get the same burnt pitch on the chain and bar you describe. I've got it turned all the way up and the chain appears dry but if I pull on it I can see it has oil in the bar groove. Stingy for sure but it seems to be sufficient.

The oil will not stop pitch buildup on the bar or chain... Stihl trie s(oil grroves in tangs , stops in the bar groove etc) to keep the oil in the groove and feed it to the chain bearings.

 

[Country1]

Thanks Andy!
More good info!

 

[wood4heat]

The oil will not stop pitch buildup on the bar or chain... Stihl trie s(oil grroves in tangs , stops in the bar groove etc) to keep the oil in the groove and feed it to the chain bearings.

It's never bothered me but this is good to know.

The only thing that's made me question if I'm getting enough oil is how hot the bar gets. In sustained or repeated cuts mine has become so hot I could touch but not hold it. The chain is sharp an making nice chips so it's not that. Does this sound normal?

 

[Lakeside53]

yep... The heat is from the chain cutting and rubbing on the wood... Mine get really hot in big wood.