47" guide bar sparking then smoking

[David Hornor]

I've been around Chainsaws all my life. Not an expert, but I've cut a bit of wood. Never had a big one before, but I recognize a warning when I see one. So here it is. I bought a used Stihl 880 that runs well. I bought a new Stihl Duramatic hardnose 47" bar on ebay. I bought a chain to match from my local Stihl dealer. I put it all together today, and it's throwing sparks off the tip. I shut it down immediately and manually oiled the length of the chain, and checked for proper tensioning. Fired it up again, now it's throwing sparks and smoking. Shut her down again. Barehanded the bar, not really hot. Fingered the chain, actually cool. Fired her up again, no more sparking, but smokes at full throttle along the length of the bar. Figured I better not smoke the bar, so I shut her down. Is this typical of a new longsaw and it will break in? Or do I have a problem with the oiler?

 

[LoneMadrone]

Whats up David?
I was wondering if your only seeing this sparks flying situation with your alaskan bolted on your saw? If so, I would check your clearences around the nose clamp and everywere else for that matter. Chain may be rubbing somewhere. On another note, that saw belongs A: in the woods
B: in a shop
C: on a tailgate
NOT in that hotel lobby were you've got it there. Just joking dude. Clean living room, even cleaner 880/mill. We'll figure this out.

 

[David Hornor]

I couldn't pass up the play time. I travel so bring my toys with me. Btw, my woods are orchards. I'm slabbing black walnut stumps.

Anyway, first thing I did was check the clearance. However, I pushed the limit on this mill set up to get 45" mill width. I'll check it again. I've never seen sparks before, but I've never had a mill this big before, either. I think you may be right, because the sparks seemed to come from the tip of the bar, which from my angle wasn't clear.

The smoking bar could have been over-oiling it? I was using a high quality bar oil, pretty heavy viscosity.

Thanks for the help.

 

[outdoorsman0490]

I would slide the tip bar clamp back an inch or two and make sure you are not torquing it down on the sprocket. Not sure if that is your answer, but when I run mine, I keep the sprocket past the clamp.

 

[CR888]

I'd take the mill off and give it a run but first check oil is coming out from the oiler. Nice saw btw.

 

[Stihl 041S]

I would slide the tip bar clamp back an inch or two and make sure you are not torquing it down on the sprocket. Not sure if that is your answer, but when I run mine, I keep the sprocket past the clamp.

Duromatic....no sprocket.......could still be tweaking the bar........so I'm no help.

 

[outdoorsman0490]

Didn't know that, I only have stihl top handles.

 

[chainsaw-57]

DUROMATIC bars need to have the chain run a little loose compared to ROLLOMATIC.

The chain is actually running on the steel tip of the bar, where as the ROLLOMATIC bar/sprocket actually lifts the chain off the bar nose.

Hope this helps, Larry. HOS

 

[David Hornor]

Is it possible there's a twist in the mill that I can't see but clamped it so far down the bar it actually twisted the bar, too? I noticed the bar itself before I attached the mill was flexing as I installed the chain.

Now there was a challenge. Installing a chained up long bar. I ended up making a jig to hold the saw, chain, and bar in alignment in order to get her done. I was at the hotel when I put it all together and even though peer pressure was great I did not fire it up.

I like the idea of removing the mill, which I got the 56" mill rails from Bailey's, and seeing what happens.

I bought an adjunct oiler from Bailey's also but haven't installed it yet as it's for horizontal oiling when I'm in full mill mode.

On a side note I see some of you are out of state. Know what I found out? All these years, and Bailey's is in my backyard! It's a little out of Sacramento, about 3.5 hours from here. So I dropped in one day. Very small showroom, very large warehouse. Drooling the whole time I was there.

 

[Franny K]

What size drive sprocket is on it? Kind of looks like a small radius for a hard nose. Does Stihl have different radius choices in that mount? Hard to tell if you have an oiling problem long distance. I often make the chain loose, pour some chain oil in the cap the dribble some in the slot with a new bar, push chain around, repeat, then tension as desired.

 

[Rob Stafari]

I'd definitely start troubleshooting by removing the mill, then checking to make sure its getting plenty of oil. Spin the chain by hand to see if its binding at all. Check tension as hardnose bars require more slack than sprocket nose. Is this saw going to live as a milling machine? Milling creates enough heat as it is, I personally wouldn't want to add a hardnose bar to the equation. More friction = more heat. Only reason I'd want a hardnose bar at all is set up on a big saw that's dedicated to stumping/dirty conditions that will wear a sprocket out.

 

[Boogedy_Man]

Knowing what a pain in the rear it is to take a setup like that in and out of a mill...I would think you could sight down that bar and easily identify any twist. Likewise, if there were a tight spot or damaged link, it wouldn't turn easily by hand.

I would look around the nose clamp and the bolts to see if the chain contacted anything. On my mill that is where problems tend to show up.

Setting up a long bar for milling was tough for me. It requires much more tension than I expected. I'm not sure how adding a hard nose into the equation is going play out, but it is certainly not going to make things easier.

I don't know what kind of oil an 880 throws, but I wouldn't be doing any milling without your aux oiler installed. It'll work just fine dribbling on the bar nose if you're hesitant to drill the bar. Thick bar oil doesn't work spectacular in hollow bolt oiler anyway.

 

[David Hornor]

Lot of great ideas. Thinking I'm going to like this site. I'm on the road again so I'll shotgun some answers.

Got a hard nose cuz I'm working stumps and roots. Mostly it was cheap. But new. 80% milling. .404 gauge, figured it was a universal bar so with a drive sprocket change I could run any other chain, besides the.063 pitch, full comp, 10* filed, I've on now. I've a full skip for crosscutting. My dealer sells me Oregon chain.

My drive sprockets are OEM, I wasn't aware of other sizes. Bigger would slow the chain, smaller speed it up, right?

I use Oregon bar oil, its viscous, and it's in the 50s still. So it's thick. I dribbled a goodly amount on top of the top chain, which some ended up on the bottom chain. I like the idea of targeting the groove. I'll try this.

As for tension, the chain can rotate by hand, but not as easily as my shorter bars, 36, 32, 30, 28. All Stihl. I attributed this to the 47" length. There may have been excessive resistance, it didn't feel quite smooth and silky. More like sticky and sandy. I'm going to strip it apart when I get home, inspect all these suggested points, then reassemble it in steps, testing it along the way. I can see visible gap on the bottom of the bar.

I agree friction sucks, so I'll get a sprocket nose on my 59" when I get one.

Building a mill is like building an AR. Spend more, though. I do it as a hobby these days, not so much for a living anymore.

 

[Boogedy_Man]

Sprocket sizing is backwards....bigger=faster, less torque and smaller equals slower, more torque.

 

[Skeans]

You could have too much tension on the bar part of the reason I run a fat belly Cannon 60.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[2dogs]

Any bar will throw sparks in certain conditions you just can't see them in bright light. That new bar will run in and smooth out after a few hours of use and I suspect will throw far fewer sparks but it will throw some sparks during its lifetime. Buy a bar edge sharpener to keep the rails square and check for bending whenever you have the bar off the saw. As has been noted a hardnose bar requires less tension than a sprocket nose but how that works in milling I'm not sure.

 

[David Hornor]

Any bar will throw sparks in certain conditions you just can't see them in bright light. That new bar will run in and smooth out after a few hours of use and I suspect will throw far fewer sparks but it will throw some sparks during its lifetime. Buy a bar edge sharpener to keep the rails square and check for bending whenever you have the bar off the saw. As has been noted a hardnose bar requires less tension than a sprocket nose but how that works in milling I'm not sure.

Well, that makes sense. What also makes sense is I was firing it up in the garage. Indoors, most likely as it was raining. We are getting Oregon levels of precipitation this year. Well, maybe not Oregonian this year, but in an Oregonian drought year, maybe. LOL. 700 inches of snow at one of our ski resorts that we frequent. 470 inches at my local resort.

Anyway, I never ever have run a saw indoors, but I was this time. I've never ever run a saw at night, either. LOL. Pretty traditional about when I run a saw. I did some night shooting once and was amazed at the flares produced. Don't see that much in daylight. Maybe I'll run it at night, also. I wonder if the bar turns red? I've seen my barrel glow after a magazine load.

So, I saw sparks. If that happens normally, and you can't see it, did it really happen? By the way, I've always heard my trees fall, for the record.

I still haven't touched it since I started this thread, maybe I'll do it this weekend. It's raining again, so I'll get a good look at it in the garage.

 

[2dogs]

David a bunch of us have a Get Together (GTG) up near Napa/St Helena in early November each year. Consider yourself invited! We camp in tents or trailers at Bothe Napa State Park and in turn they allow us to hack on some of their trees. The food is great, the whiskey is awful, and the fellowship is fantastic! There will be a sticky starting around mid September.

 

[2dogs]

David a bunch of us have a Get Together (GTG) up near Napa/St Helena in early November each year. Consider yourself invited! We camp in tents or trailers at Bothe Napa State Park and in turn they allow us to hack on some of their trees. The food is great, the whiskey is awful, and the fellowship is fantastic! There will be a sticky starting around mid September.

 

[David Hornor]

Vg,g

David a bunch of us have a Get Together (GTG) up near Napa/St Helena in early November each year. Consider yourself invited! We camp in tents or trailers at Bothe Napa State Park and in turn they allow us to hack on some of their trees. The food is great, the whiskey is awful, and the fellowship is fantastic! There will be a sticky starting around mid September.

I'm your Huckleberry! Sounds like fun! So like we can bring all our saw gear and have a good time? With like minded people? And cut trees up?! You're on! Know what my nickname is: "Dances With Trees". I'll show you the scars.

Whiskey may be awful, but it gets better after the first one. That's why there's ice.

Thanks!