~60cc shootout 962 Efco vs 361 Stihl vs 036 Stihl

[timberwolf]

I'm thinking the 361 and 962 are going to be hard pressed to beet the 360 ported.

Pulling 8 pin 3/8 very nicely with torque to spare, last cut was pushed.

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[Stihl Crazy]

Myself, I would put my money on the 361. I bought a woods port 361 Ed did for KFtree some years ago. It would easily beat my EHP 7900 and KS 670.

 

[porsche965]

Great thread, subscribed.

 

[NPKenny]

I'm looking forward to the details on the 361. Please, keep up with the detailed pictures like normal.

 

[RiverRat2]

Myself, I would put my money on the 361. I bought a woods port 361 Ed did for KFtree some years ago. It would easily beat my EHP 7900 and KS 670.

I'm Suscribed,,,, I don't know,,, that 036 looks pretty tough to me,,,

 

[Anthony_Va.]

I'm Suscribed,,,, I don't know,,, that 036 looks pretty tough to me,,,

I agree, looks really strong. TW does awesome work.

I also look forward to seeing the 361 finished. I'm betting it will be a screamer too.

 

[thomasjf]

Great thread TW

Good you take the time to share your work and ideas. As always, I expect to learn a bit from your teachings. Thanks a bunch.
I have had a new untouched green Efco 962(John Deere CS62)sitting here for a couple of years now so this will be most interesting.

 

[Stihl Crazy]

Porting ?

TW, we see how the 036 works at your place. How much of a performance loss or gain would you expect if it was run here or west coast? Are different #'s needed for different locations?

Would the running order of the 3 saws be different here than at your place?

 

[timberwolf]

Should be no difference, elevation is within a few hundred feet, climate simmilar enough.

Will get some pictures up of the 361 and 962 innards later today.

 

[Stihl Crazy]

Should be no difference, elevation is within a few hundred feet, climate simmilar enough.

Will get some pictures up of the 361 and 962 innards later today.

What about the Atlantic, any effect? I know from racing I have had vast performance swings from coast to inland. When I used to race up in Doaktown (1000 km away, away from the ocean) I couldn't touch their saws. When they came down here the results were reversed.

Took Ed 3 trys to get a 346 to run right here. What ran great at his place was a dud here. The last 346 he did for my BIL was closer to 026 #'s, runs great here.

 

[Stihl Crazy]

TW, anything to gain using the Jonsered piston?

 

[weimedog]

Elevation, Air Pressure (Barometric Pressure), Moisture/dew point, Air Temperature..all interrelated and affect performance. Guess think of it as those things that change air density & temperature are going to have an impact of performance. Bet the weather condition had more impact than 200ft altitude. I have more than 200ft elevation change on my place right here on this hill top!

 

[Stihl Crazy]

I know I can get a 1500 rpm shift from 3:00pm to 6:00pm when those old pea soup thick fog banks are rolling in.
One thing that is certain, " the ocean ain't the prairies".

 

[J.W Younger]

Elevation, Air Pressure (Barometric Pressure), Moisture/dew point, Air Temperature..all interrelated and affect performance. Guess think of it as those things that change air density & temperature are going to have an impact of performance. Bet the weather condition had more impact than 200ft altitude. I have more than 200ft elevation change on my place right here on this hill top!

I've wondered about being a dealer and setting up a saw,say on a hot humid summer day.How can you pull it off when the baro is bumping up near 31 in winter and that saw is being worked hard with that same mixture.

 

[tdi-rick]

What about the Atlantic, any effect? I know from racing I have had vast performance swings from coast to inland. When I used to race up in Doaktown (1000 km away, away from the ocean) I couldn't touch their saws. When they came down here the results were reversed.

Took Ed 3 trys to get a 346 to run right here. What ran great at his place was a dud here. The last 346 he did for my BIL was closer to 026 #'s, runs great here.

Sounds more like a tuning issue.

A long long time ago I ran karts and if an engine was quick at sea level, either piston ported, rotary or reed depending on class it was quick at 4000' in the central tablelands if you tweaked the carb.

No matter where we went we'd be tuning heat to heat, morning to afternoon chasing the weather.

 

[Stihl Crazy]

Sounds more like a tuning issue.

A long long time ago I ran karts and if an engine was quick at sea level, either piston ported, rotary or reed depending on class it was quick at 4000' in the central tablelands if you tweaked the carb.

No matter where we went we'd be tuning heat to heat, morning to afternoon chasing the weather.

I'm not new to the racing game. I always tuned them when I got there, to their air and chains to their wood, but never got the same performance I could get here. Sometimes I wonder why I even bother coming on here.

 

[terry2tmd]

What about the Atlantic, any effect? I know from racing I have had vast performance swings from coast to inland. When I used to race up in Doaktown (1000 km away, away from the ocean) I couldn't touch their saws. When they came down here the results were reversed.

Took Ed 3 trys to get a 346 to run right here. What ran great at his place was a dud here. The last 346 he did for my BIL was closer to 026 #'s, runs great here.

I deal with this all the time, Escalante sets at 5800 almost a perfect mile above sea level, but most of the wood I cut is at between 7000 & 10,000. I tune my saw to run in town, and retune it to get wood, they won't even Idle sometimes in the woods.
TW thanks for shareing, I happen to be a huge fan of yours!!!!
You got me wondering though is the intake boot on my ms391 looks like the 361's.does. If so there is a couple rpms I could pick up in the cut real easy. Where do I get a good degree wheel? I will ask that question, and then do the research I need to work my ports out.
Hey is there a thread on mapping ports with a degree wheel?

 

[mtngun]

Where do I get a good degree wheel?

Print this out at a size that matches a CD -- you may have to scale the print settings, I think I used an 80% scale. Then glue it to an old CD.

Several threads on setting up a degree wheel, the hard part is finding TDC accurately. Get started and then ask questions as they arise.

 

[tdi-rick]

[snip]
Sometimes I wonder why I even bother coming on here.

?? If you make a statement expect to be questioned.

In my experience, if a two stroke is ported for maximum grunt it shouldn't matter a damn where it's run, if it's tuned it'll be quick and the performance difference relative to the opposition will be the same if it's tuned properly.

What you are saying is the first I've ever heard of that happening, but hey, I'm here to learn just like everyone else and If someone comes along with a plausible explanation I'm all ears.

 

[terry2tmd]

Print this out at a size that matches a CD -- you may have to scale the print settings, I think I used an 80% scale. Then glue it to an old CD.

Several threads on setting up a degree wheel, the hard part is finding TDC accurately. Get started and then ask questions as they arise.

Thanks man!!!! The CD thing sounds like a winner, finding TDC would be similar to finding it when you degree in a cam only a magnetic based dial caliper wouldn't work, but you could mabybe some how clamp it to the front handle bar somehow, just have to improvise, I guess