a thought on aluminum cans in the fire

[EastwoodGang4]

Hey guys just had a thought on tossing aluminum cans in the fire to reduce creosote. I googled the melting and burning temps of aluminum, and they are: melting 1220 F, and burning @ 6920 F!! surely we are just melting the cans and not burning them! But this makes me wonder where are the globs of melted aluminum in my ashpan?? And another question comes to mind... if we burn our fires hot enough to "burn" the can, then we should be burning our stoves hot enough to prevent creosote build up in the first place. Does the aluminum really change creosote build up? or does it just make it hot and crispy? Just a thought that makes me wonder....:monkey:

 

[ROOTSXROCKS]

interesting question never heard of this but it really sounds like a croc, I think your onto it that if you are burning the cans you are burning hot enough to prevent it.

 

[dingeryote]

LOL!!

I don't have an ash pan, but the cans dissapear in the ashes so they must be burning. This IS a quandry based upon the combustion temp of aluminum.

When sweeping the chimney we get very little out, so it's either the temps or the cans, and I am not gonna cool the fire down to find out. LOL!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[J.W Younger]

I dont know if it works or not but a few get tossed in every so often and have for years now in the shop stove. The OWB cleans itself real nice come dec-jan, something to see if you never have.

 

[KsWoodsMan]

It is possible that the Aluminum Oxide reacts with the HydroCarbos in creosote. Either acting as a catylist, breaking it down into shorter chains or reacting with them directly.

Either way aluminum has been linked to ahlziemers desease I don't burn/melt cans or cook with aluminum pots.

 

[loadthestove]

Dont knock it until you've tried it.Was taught this by my grandparents.Dont know how or why it works but it does.I have a century free standing in my family room.For two winters the stove was burning nearly all the time.it would get a cresote build up inside.(I'm burning well seasoned wood)When I burn the cans the inside of the stove build up will basically turn to a fine powder and fall into the ashes.
Another one that I was told about was to burn potato peeilngs ,never got around to trying that one .

it may cause health problems ,,dont know about that,but it seems anything I want do is either Illegal.Immoral ,or bad for for me

 

[ROOTSXROCKS]

Aluminum does react with Oxygen quickly when exposed through its protective oxide layer, I suppose it could ignite and combust

Thermite is a pyrotechnic composition of a metal powder and a metal oxide, which produces an aluminothermic reaction known as a thermite reaction. It is not explosive, but can create short bursts of extremely high temperatures focused on a very small area for a short period of time.

Thermites can be a diverse class of compositions. The fuels are often aluminium, magnesium, calcium, titanium, zinc, silicon, and boron. The oxidizers can be boron(III) oxide, silicon(IV) oxide, chromium(III) oxide, manganese(IV) oxide, iron(III) oxide, iron(II,III) oxide, copper(II) oxide, and lead(II,II,IV) oxide.[1]

The most common thermite is aluminium-iron(III) oxide.

Well, Al *will* burn in air, but not freely on its own in large slabs.
It needs a constant heat inputand free oxygen. Throwing Al cans on the fire will result in Al2O3.
Fused Aluminum Oxide Synonyms:
Al2O3, fused aluminum oxide powder, white corundum, white aluminum oxide powder, pink aluminum oxide powder, brown aluminum oxide powder, alumina, corundum, sapphire, ruby, aloxite, CAS# 1344

 

[injun joe]

well another thing is the heat sink of the object greatly affects the melting point. the very thin thickness and relatively small area it is a lot easier to heat the can up to melting point. you also have to remember that soda companies arent using aircraft grade aluminum probably the cheap stuff. its easier to melt a soda can that it is a 1'' thick piece of aluminum. different alloys of aluminum melt at different temperatures to metallurgy can be fun or a pita.

 

[vwboomer]

hmmmm I do like to have a beer while getting the fire going at night!

 

[turnkey4099]

From the occasional can I dug out of my burn barrel back when it was legal, they don't 'melt' but rather turn to powder. At least those cans came out very light and could be crumbled in my hand.

Harry K

 

[Ductape]

I feel the same whether we are talking about putting beer cans in my wood stove, or putting my wife in my wood stove. :jawdrop:



I might think about it...................... but i dooooooonnnnnnnnn't do it. :greenchainsaw:

 

[flotek]

heres an idea ...just burn seasoned wood and you wont have to put garbage in your wood appliance

 

[jburlingham]

I believe this patent gives the basis for what the aluminum is supposed to do, however looking at whats in this, it isn't the best choice, Zinc or nickle would be better

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090071068

"[0009]The present invention provides hydrophobic metal salts which can be combined with a fire accelerant for preventing, inhibiting and/or removing creosote deposits resulting from the burning of solid fuels. The present invention combines a metal component which provides creosote control, with organic counterions, such as sulfates, nitrates, acetates, etc. which confer hydrocarbon solubility upon the metal catalyst. Additionally, a subset of these counterions themselves can act as corrosion inhibitors of ferrous and non-ferrous metal exhaust systems. Therefore, according to certain embodiments, the composition may contain a metal salt which has a dual role of creosote and corrosion control. According to an alternate embodiment, the composition combines creosote inhibiting salts with corrosion inhibiting salts.

[0010]When an effective amount of metal salts of the present invention are added to an accelerant, the combination delivers the metal catalyst to the lining of the exhaust system upon combustion. The metal catalysts effectively breakdown creosote residue and inhibits the buildup of new creosote deposits, and can also act to inhibit corrosion of metal flues.

[0011]The creosote and/or corrosion control additive composition of the present invention comprises a hydrocarbon soluble transition metal salt, having a chemical structure of the formula:

X+m[Y-n]p, [0012]wherein X is a transition metal having an ionic charge of +m, [0013]Y is an aliphatic anion, having a charge of -n, and [0014]m=pn.

[0015]Preferred transition metals include Mn, Zn, Ti, V, Cr, Fe Co, Ni, and Cu; with Mn being the most preferred. Other possible transition metals include, but are not limited to Zr, Mo, Ru, Rh, Pd, Ta, W, Re, Ir, Pt, Au and Pb. Other transition metals may also be possible, as will be understood by one skilled in the art, but the above mentioned are believed to be the most ideal."

 

[EastwoodGang4]

woah

Aluminum does react with Oxygen quickly when exposed through its protective oxide layer, I suppose it could ignite and combust

Well, Al *will* burn in air, but not freely on its own in large slabs.
It needs a constant heat inputand free oxygen. Throwing Al cans on the fire will result in Al2O3.
Fused Aluminum Oxide Synonyms:
Al2O3, fused aluminum oxide powder, white corundum, white aluminum oxide powder, pink aluminum oxide powder, brown aluminum oxide powder, alumina, corundum, sapphire, ruby, aloxite, CAS# 1344

Wow dude thorough answer! and way over my head!

Maybe there's something chemical after all!?

 

[slowp]

There sure are a lot of :censored: "campers" who seem to think they will melt down in a campfire. Sorry, one of my pet peeves. I do a bit of cleaning up after said :censored: campers. I pick up a lot of charred cans.

 

[HOGBEAR]

:jawdrop::jawdrop::jawdrop::jawdrop:

I believe this patent gives the basis for what the aluminum is supposed to do, however looking at whats in this, it isn't the best choice, Zinc or nickle would be better

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090071068

"[0009]The present invention provides hydrophobic metal salts which can be combined with a fire accelerant for preventing, inhibiting and/or removing creosote deposits resulting from the burning of solid fuels. The present invention combines a metal component which provides creosote control, with organic counterions, such as sulfates, nitrates, acetates, etc. which confer hydrocarbon solubility upon the metal catalyst. Additionally, a subset of these counterions themselves can act as corrosion inhibitors of ferrous and non-ferrous metal exhaust systems. Therefore, according to certain embodiments, the composition may contain a metal salt which has a dual role of creosote and corrosion control. According to an alternate embodiment, the composition combines creosote inhibiting salts with corrosion inhibiting salts.

[0010]When an effective amount of metal salts of the present invention are added to an accelerant, the combination delivers the metal catalyst to the lining of the exhaust system upon combustion. The metal catalysts effectively breakdown creosote residue and inhibits the buildup of new creosote deposits, and can also act to inhibit corrosion of metal flues.

[0011]The creosote and/or corrosion control additive composition of the present invention comprises a hydrocarbon soluble transition metal salt, having a chemical structure of the formula:

X+m[Y-n]p, [0012]wherein X is a transition metal having an ionic charge of +m, [0013]Y is an aliphatic anion, having a charge of -n, and [0014]m=pn.

[0015]Preferred transition metals include Mn, Zn, Ti, V, Cr, Fe Co, Ni, and Cu; with Mn being the most preferred. Other possible transition metals include, but are not limited to Zr, Mo, Ru, Rh, Pd, Ta, W, Re, Ir, Pt, Au and Pb. Other transition metals may also be possible, as will be understood by one skilled in the art, but the above mentioned are believed to be the most ideal."

What the:jawdrop:

 

[goof008]

I'm not sure if it is the materials the cans are made with has changed...I don't believe them to be all aluminum, but an alloy, or the wall thickness has be decreased so much, but cans do melt/disappear in a fire. When I was in college and we had a bonfire party, there would be a lot of charred cans in teh fire.

This past weekend at deer camp someone thru a can in the fire, and in 20 seconds it was gone. Nothing left in the ashes....well, the Copenhagen tin caps were still there, but not the beer cans.