Hoping to get some advice about alternative/advanced falling techniques. I've got the conventional and humbolt cuts down, but am looking for some other falling cuts to add to my tool kit. What are some of the best and safest alternative cuts you use, and in what situations do you use them? Sump pictures encouraged!
Advanced Falling Cuts
- Thread starter btohlen
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Most of the rest are for turning trees, swinging, etc. Theres a few for making the log jump off the stump. And a couple for preventing barber chairs.
Biggest thing is manipulation of the hold wood, tree will turn towards the thicker hold wood, its not a 100% guarantee and depends largely on trunk size, while a small tree can be turned, its not as effective as a fat stump.
This would be easier to answer if you had a more specific problem to solve.
Biggest thing is manipulation of the hold wood, tree will turn towards the thicker hold wood, its not a 100% guarantee and depends largely on trunk size, while a small tree can be turned, its not as effective as a fat stump.
This would be easier to answer if you had a more specific problem to solve.
Spotted Owl
ArboristSite Guru
What are you up against that needs advanced cutting technique? Get into some of the tricky stuff and stumps don't look all that pretty any more sometimes. Start putting big forces in places that don't want it and things break, twist and pull. When you get into these cuts the safe part starts going down a bit, especially if you don't have the experience or some one showing you hands on, do this, don't do that, with all the variable that can't possibly be told here. Search up dutchmen, siswheel. That should get you some reading. Big thing is being able to read a tree quick while it's moving and deciding if something else needs to be or can be done and where on the stump to do it. Keep your eyes on the top it will tell you everything that is happening and what needs to be done. Have to know your trees too. Which hold good and which break fast and won't take much. Use a block, play with snipes. Until your comfortable don't do this wile your by yourself.
I hope I didn't fall for some fishing expedition here.
Owl
I hope I didn't fall for some fishing expedition here.
Owl
treeslayer2003
Addicted to ArboristSite
i would say a block face and wedges is one of the more safe................depends on what your cutting, be careful with white oak and ash.
With wedges or dutchman or what?
bnmc98
ArboristSite Guru
Where in MT are you?
I generally use the straight up cuts most of the time, its fast and efficient and much safer as stated above. I will play around a little if I dont feel like pounding wedges and It wont affect my lay or risk breaking the wood. Usually the different cuts come out when I am trying to swing a tree away from a lean. The real tricks are with moderate leaners or rotten trees. I will generally put in a siswheel or more of a block cut to try to help them hang on a little longer, but a lot of times (especially on the larger ones), the sheer weight of the tree will break the hinge before It gets where you want it to go; so some times I have to over shoot where I really want it to go with my face cut (ie aiming beyond where I want it to go) and hope it drops close to the needed spot.
There are lots of different things you can do, some of them you just stumble into depending on the dilemma. I find the trickiest trees to deal with are the heavy leaners. keep your face cuts opened up, specially on the fir, so they dont split out on you.
not a whole lot you can do with the dead lodgepole around here, they don't pull near as easy as a green tree, especially if they have been dead a while, like most around here. hinges are done pretty much in the first part of them going over they just break. watch your wind on those too, a little can blow your tree off course pretty good because they are light.
Which brings up a good point, dead trees behave different from green trees, I am guess you are cutting mostly dead if you are not a pro? green can pull much longer and harder, you can even pull roots out of the ground when swinging a green tree. dead ones pretty much say, "OK I'm done, I think I will break my hinge NOW"
The fir will hang on longer the the pine though.
I generally use the straight up cuts most of the time, its fast and efficient and much safer as stated above. I will play around a little if I dont feel like pounding wedges and It wont affect my lay or risk breaking the wood. Usually the different cuts come out when I am trying to swing a tree away from a lean. The real tricks are with moderate leaners or rotten trees. I will generally put in a siswheel or more of a block cut to try to help them hang on a little longer, but a lot of times (especially on the larger ones), the sheer weight of the tree will break the hinge before It gets where you want it to go; so some times I have to over shoot where I really want it to go with my face cut (ie aiming beyond where I want it to go) and hope it drops close to the needed spot.
There are lots of different things you can do, some of them you just stumble into depending on the dilemma. I find the trickiest trees to deal with are the heavy leaners. keep your face cuts opened up, specially on the fir, so they dont split out on you.
not a whole lot you can do with the dead lodgepole around here, they don't pull near as easy as a green tree, especially if they have been dead a while, like most around here. hinges are done pretty much in the first part of them going over they just break. watch your wind on those too, a little can blow your tree off course pretty good because they are light.
Which brings up a good point, dead trees behave different from green trees, I am guess you are cutting mostly dead if you are not a pro? green can pull much longer and harder, you can even pull roots out of the ground when swinging a green tree. dead ones pretty much say, "OK I'm done, I think I will break my hinge NOW"
The fir will hang on longer the the pine though.Pyroholic
New Member
Anybody got any recommendations for a book on this topic?
bnmc98
ArboristSite Guru
Professional timber falling - a procedural approach by douglas dent has some basics for cutting. The work safe bc faller training vids have some stuff as well. Lots on youtube to help you learn what not to do, but some vids are ok. I think a lot of the real advanced stuff you will need to talk to some of the guys here.
A good read here. Pics - copy and paste as the links are broke.
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/felling-2-trees.107809/
Never same old, same old. Time of year, cold affect wood differentlly.
Some time even dead can be root pulled.
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/felling-2-trees.107809/
Never same old, same old. Time of year, cold affect wood differentlly.
Some time even dead can be root pulled.
RandyMac
Stiff Member
I'll be back later
simplest and easiest thing is to use a dutchmen block, take of chunk out of the face chunk stick in the face opposite where you want the tree to go, I.E. if you want it to go left, stick the block on the right.
The soft dutch is more or less the same thing, except you leave the "block" as part of the stump, and make a series of cuts to help keep the tree moving, lets it sort of roll around nice and smooth.
Then the standard dutchmen block is just a mismatch of the face cuts, where as the gun cut is deeper then the slope cut, creating a step. Most times I'll purposefully cut off the off side from the face severing the hold wood on that side before I even start the back cut.
For steering a dutch block is usually left on the one side of the stump.
A kerf dutch is used to make the tree hop a bit and clear the ground quickly, its just a mismatched cut that is even across the stump, that step between the hold wood and the slope cut on the face acts like a speed bump. This should absolutely not be tried on any chair prone timber, it can cause a stall which will then cause a chair...
The siswheel, is a basically a modified block cut, but focused on one side of the stump, the idea being to maximize hold wood on the side you want to turn too, if done correctly they can and will pull the roots out of the ground. I try to place my sis's about middle of a root swell, or a little infront. Make them as tall as you want, I've seen pics of some that went from waist high to nearly digging in the dirt.
All these tricks are just that tricks, once a guy figures them out they work fairly good, but its like playing poker, you have to play the hand your dealt, trees do fight back, and gravity is a fickle *****. DO NOT count on any of these if you plan on working near any high value targets.
Some good folks to look for on YOUTUBE would be hotsaws101, and Tarzantree, both former/current? members here. You can also go back through the falling pics thread and pick up whats left, some pictures are missing.
The soft dutch is more or less the same thing, except you leave the "block" as part of the stump, and make a series of cuts to help keep the tree moving, lets it sort of roll around nice and smooth.
Then the standard dutchmen block is just a mismatch of the face cuts, where as the gun cut is deeper then the slope cut, creating a step. Most times I'll purposefully cut off the off side from the face severing the hold wood on that side before I even start the back cut.
For steering a dutch block is usually left on the one side of the stump.
A kerf dutch is used to make the tree hop a bit and clear the ground quickly, its just a mismatched cut that is even across the stump, that step between the hold wood and the slope cut on the face acts like a speed bump. This should absolutely not be tried on any chair prone timber, it can cause a stall which will then cause a chair...
The siswheel, is a basically a modified block cut, but focused on one side of the stump, the idea being to maximize hold wood on the side you want to turn too, if done correctly they can and will pull the roots out of the ground. I try to place my sis's about middle of a root swell, or a little infront. Make them as tall as you want, I've seen pics of some that went from waist high to nearly digging in the dirt.
All these tricks are just that tricks, once a guy figures them out they work fairly good, but its like playing poker, you have to play the hand your dealt, trees do fight back, and gravity is a fickle *****. DO NOT count on any of these if you plan on working near any high value targets.
Some good folks to look for on YOUTUBE would be hotsaws101, and Tarzantree, both former/current? members here. You can also go back through the falling pics thread and pick up whats left, some pictures are missing.
Spotted Owl
ArboristSite Guru
Don't tease like that, then disappear. Ill brew up some more of this guy
and share with Bob.Owl
RandyMac
Stiff Member
Don't tease like that, then disappear. Ill brew up some more of this guy
Owl
new meds, out of order
Spotted Owl
ArboristSite Guru
New meds? Why would you do such a thing. We need the regular Randy around here. Let's all chant, no meds, no meds, no meds.
I hope you adjust soon. New meds are a good thing.
Owl
I hope you adjust soon. New meds are a good thing.
Owl
RandyMac
Stiff Member
Thank you Owl.
I've gone 'round the bend
I've gone 'round the bend
Anyone want to come demonstrate? I have some 12" Alder leaning toward my house that needs something done with it before very long. The worst is a clump with 4 off the same stump. 3 of them will go where I want them, the last one looks like it has a mind of it's own.
4x4American
Got Sawdust?
do you call a snipe just that little nip off the front of the undercut that will help to throw the tree off the stump? or is there more to it?
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