hey guys i have been in the field for 6yrs i feel that it is time for me to start making some real $ but i am alittle nervous about jumping head first into the game, i do like the garunteed $ now but the potential on your own is a great deal higher and the risk is also great deal higher. I have not yet got a chipper or truck yet, i am a few weeks away from that, and as far as the help goes i have a great ground guy that i have worked with at a previous job and many jobs on the weekends so that is taken care of and he only wants 100$a day and i am happy with that. As far as chippers go i ahve looked a brushbandit 150,s and 90,s any suggestions i have also looked at morbark 2070 i thinkit was it was a 50hp chipper any suggestions i am only looking to spend like 9000 max id like to be in the 7000 range, now the truck i am looking for a 1 ton dump preferablly with sides and id like to keep that in the 8000 range. I defenatly want to keep the cost down to keep my overhead to a minimum till i can build up the backlog and know i have enough work. i am open to all suggestions and advice because i know there are people out there that have been through this and can pass some knowledge on, and get this off to a great start.
advice on starting a small tree company
- Thread starter A&Atree
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RandyS
ArboristSite Member
Do you need a license to do tree work where you live? Make sure you have the right insurance. Are you prepared to run a business, all the paperwork and workmans comp, etc? How are you at giving customers an idea of what is wrong with their tree?
Me, I would take business courses and tree courses.
Knowledge is power!
Good luck.
Me, I would take business courses and tree courses.
Knowledge is power!
Good luck.
M.D. Vaden
vadenphotography.com
Why start as an Oak, when you can start as a seed?
I have a friend in Indiana - a Certified Arborist - who started a tree service 3 times in 3 states.
Once in Georgia.
Then in Oregon where I met him. (He stayed there for maybe 10 years).
And then his family started business in Indiana after moving there.
In just a few years, he became the largest tree service in Bloomington, Indiana. He has employees and is able to purchase large new equipment.
Anyhow, in Oregon, he started by placing business cards at houses, and a small newspaper ad at about $80 per month. He started with a $1000 flatbed truck and just made a few trips to the dump.
In a few months to a year, he bought a used bigger truck and used chipper for about $10,000.
By year two, he had 2 employees and was percieved as a real competitor in the Beaverton / Portland, Oregon tree service market.
So, he started as a seed, and grew up to be an oak. You don't need a truck and chipper to start. You could get them, but you don't need them.
If there is a United Rentals - or similar - in your area, you can rent a good size chipper for about $120 per day.
I have a friend in Indiana - a Certified Arborist - who started a tree service 3 times in 3 states.
Once in Georgia.
Then in Oregon where I met him. (He stayed there for maybe 10 years).
And then his family started business in Indiana after moving there.
In just a few years, he became the largest tree service in Bloomington, Indiana. He has employees and is able to purchase large new equipment.
Anyhow, in Oregon, he started by placing business cards at houses, and a small newspaper ad at about $80 per month. He started with a $1000 flatbed truck and just made a few trips to the dump.
In a few months to a year, he bought a used bigger truck and used chipper for about $10,000.
By year two, he had 2 employees and was percieved as a real competitor in the Beaverton / Portland, Oregon tree service market.
So, he started as a seed, and grew up to be an oak. You don't need a truck and chipper to start. You could get them, but you don't need them.
If there is a United Rentals - or similar - in your area, you can rent a good size chipper for about $120 per day.
okietreedude1
ArboristSite Guru
After almost 11 yrs, I too jumped ship and went out on my own.
I truck/trailered it for 5 months and due to warm winter weather, I became the back logged business you speak of. I then picked up about exactly what equip your looking for.
Things are going good right now and I expect it to continue. Do the kind of work now as you did before (unless it was bad) and you should continue to grow in size. As for advertising, hit the local paper and put up fliers in businesses that will let you. I also sent letters w/ business cards to friends letting them know I was on my own. That has sparked a few calls. Get some magnetic signs for your truck so people will know who you are and what youre doing.
Another thing to consider, when you get done w/ a job, if the customer is pleased, invite them to pass along some of your cards to friends. Its the word of mouth advertising that works best.
Since youve been around it for 6 yrs, you should have picked up some general knowledge on how to do things. Put ideas to work that you had while working for someone else and make them work for you.
Best of Luck and Welcome to ArboristSite!
I truck/trailered it for 5 months and due to warm winter weather, I became the back logged business you speak of. I then picked up about exactly what equip your looking for.
Things are going good right now and I expect it to continue. Do the kind of work now as you did before (unless it was bad) and you should continue to grow in size. As for advertising, hit the local paper and put up fliers in businesses that will let you. I also sent letters w/ business cards to friends letting them know I was on my own. That has sparked a few calls. Get some magnetic signs for your truck so people will know who you are and what youre doing.
Another thing to consider, when you get done w/ a job, if the customer is pleased, invite them to pass along some of your cards to friends. Its the word of mouth advertising that works best.
Since youve been around it for 6 yrs, you should have picked up some general knowledge on how to do things. Put ideas to work that you had while working for someone else and make them work for you.
Best of Luck and Welcome to ArboristSite!
As already stated, start as small as possible and work your way up. If you start with a flat bed and trailer they will still be of use to you once the chipper is bought. Also, try to get the little things customers notice like a form for estimates listing the work to be done and explination of major expenses like a dumpster. People don't mind paying for things if they understand why and feel like you are up front with them, just don't tell them the nitty gritty. Best of luck to you.
9th year rookie
ArboristSite Member
A&A - looks like we're in the same boat - almost - I started a couple years ago. I agree with the Oak/seed (acorn) thing. Start off slow and grow conservatively. I started with an old pickup, a 10 year old Husq136 and a 15 yr old pickup. As I made some $ I bought a used dump (1995), then a used chipper (1988). Things are going well - not a millionaire yet but slowly growing. The other side of the coin is a guy I know (5yrs ago) bought a brand new bucket and chipper - day 1. Before he starts he's in the hole for over 150k. Things didn't work out so well for him. I'm not saying buying big equip is wrong. Everyone has a different business plan, but if you buy equip, you want it to work for you and not you work for it. Right now I'd like to get into a bucket but I know I can't keep it busy - working for me.
BlueRidgeMark
Addicted to ArboristSite
A&Atree said:
The IRS won't be. Don't start by inviting disaster. Learn the rules about what and HOW people have to be paid. You cannot make someone an independent contractor just by calling him that. There are very strict Federal regulations that define who is and who isn't a contractor, and there are probably millions of people who learned this the hard way when the IRS came after them. That ain't fun.
On the positive side, learn about marketing:
http://www.gmarketing.com/
It's well worth investing in some of their books, and there is a lot of FREE advice available on their site:
http://www.gmarketing.com/articles/?PHPSESSID=6db7c94e42b08c6869e29a1a888a6646
http://www.gmarketing.com/tips/archive/
Go for it!
what's the market like where your'e at? high end fine pruning type clientel or down and dirty farm country practical tree work? I did my own biz with a flatbed and trailer for a while, as you know since your an experienced tree guy the brush adds up fas t on the high end fine pruning stuff, If your in a part of the country (like I was) where the majority of your business is big nasty removals the handloading gets old pretty quick, and while I'm sure your no enemy to good honest hard work it doesn't take long to start daydreaming about all the money you could be making while your making your umpteenth trip to the dump. If youv'e got the capital, get the chipper/dump ASAP
I'd have to agree with coydog even if you are doing alot of pruning. You really want a chipper and dump (don't have to be new) asap.
Some advice. Get someone to answer your phone...wife, girlfriend, whatever, lots of people hang up on voice mail when they are calling for estimates.
I know guy that got started and just subed out all the chipping to another tree service. They would just go by his jobs at 5 and chip it all, he would haul wood on a trailer. Just an idea, I don't know, it worked out for him.
Good luck & enjoy.
Ax-man
Addicted to ArboristSite
Forget the tree biz and just get into politics, that is where the real money is. That way you can live off of other peoples money and spend it too. Then you won't have to worry about payroll, insurance, equipment breakdowns and repairs, bad weather, economic downturns , cut throat competition, deadbeats that don't pay their bills on time and a whole host of other good things that go along with being your own boss.
Larry
Larry
jp hallman
ArboristSite Guru
No kidding, better money and living conditions in stamp collecting.
Xtra
ArboristSite Operative
How are you going to get your customers? Do you a have basic understanding of marketing, advertising, and/or sales?
Who will do the maintenance on the equipment? Or major mechanical work on truck and chipper.
Will you have extra money set aside if something major breaks.
How will you handle stumps and disposal of logs and chips?
I don't want to come off all negative, but it's not always the best choice to be the business owner. There's a guy by my shop, he's tried to go out on his own twice. He eventually ends up back at the same company he left (he's a terrific production climber & big money maker, so his old boss keeps hiring him back). Being good in the trees doesn't guarantee you'll have a successful business. Also without a healthy amount of capitol and solid business knowledge it can be a tough road starting your own business.
Also remember to add at least 20 additional hour per week more than you are working now (for estimates, paperwork, maintenance, etc.)
Whatever is your final decision - safety & good luck.
Who will do the maintenance on the equipment? Or major mechanical work on truck and chipper.
Will you have extra money set aside if something major breaks.
How will you handle stumps and disposal of logs and chips?
I don't want to come off all negative, but it's not always the best choice to be the business owner. There's a guy by my shop, he's tried to go out on his own twice. He eventually ends up back at the same company he left (he's a terrific production climber & big money maker, so his old boss keeps hiring him back). Being good in the trees doesn't guarantee you'll have a successful business. Also without a healthy amount of capitol and solid business knowledge it can be a tough road starting your own business.
Also remember to add at least 20 additional hour per week more than you are working now (for estimates, paperwork, maintenance, etc.)
Whatever is your final decision - safety & good luck.
smokemonkey
New Member
That's a lot of good business advise, but I'd offer to not forget your personal financial needs! I'd advise to have enough personal saving to get you through at least a year while you're business gets off the ground. I was one of those common statistics that says most businesses fail within the first year--primarily because I wasn't prepared with my personal finances. If you don't have to worry about money at home you can put more effort into making you're new business into your passion and craft--not just an income source!
Start-up costs (especially marketing) can take awhile to payoff. You might also consider marketing with your company name and logo for a few months before you give up your day job--just to get your name out there. Small Fliers are easy to start with, and if they look cool (better with color) people keep them around and most of the time don't call until a bit later. And except for the seasonal pruning stuff, and if people like you, you schedule them a few months ahead of time so you have a good work load when you take the plunge and go solo.
Start-up costs (especially marketing) can take awhile to payoff. You might also consider marketing with your company name and logo for a few months before you give up your day job--just to get your name out there. Small Fliers are easy to start with, and if they look cool (better with color) people keep them around and most of the time don't call until a bit later. And except for the seasonal pruning stuff, and if people like you, you schedule them a few months ahead of time so you have a good work load when you take the plunge and go solo.
oldugly
ArboristSite Operative
Take care of your soft costs first...insurance, tax help, etc. Get legit. then add the equipment. You are better off starting small with equipment that does not set you back a bundle, and have the capitol in the bank to ride out the hard times. Also..get in touch with other companies in your area. Many times I have picked up jobs from my competitors because they were too busy, or they were afraid the customer was going to be too picky, or they just plain did not want to climb a certain tree.
Any business owner worth his salt would rather work with his competition than against them. We all know that we compete with eachother on some bids, but (at least in our area) we are our own best customers. I am constantly subbing out work to other companies, and doing sub-work for other companies.
Good luck to you...keep it safe...honest...and smart.
Any business owner worth his salt would rather work with his competition than against them. We all know that we compete with eachother on some bids, but (at least in our area) we are our own best customers. I am constantly subbing out work to other companies, and doing sub-work for other companies.
Good luck to you...keep it safe...honest...and smart.
Depending on where you live you will have to be licensed, bonded, and insured in order to do any tree work - either privately or professionally. The best examples of companies to research are the tree services in Salem, Oregon since that city/state has the most restrictions and rules on how/where/when to do tree trimming and other landscaping
beastmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
I built up a thriving business in two years and it almost killed me. I may of had a nervous breakdown. It consumed me. Cost my marriage.
That was 15 years ago I was only in business 3 years. I made every mistake a person could.
I did high quality work, but had little business training. I took jobs way bigger then I could handle. I took city contracts that took months to get paid. I could go on and on.
Just be aware it's not all watching the money roll in.
After underbiding a huge job and losing everything.(a blessing in Disguise)I started doing contract climbing. A lot better fit.
I'm thinking of giving it another go. But staying small and personal.
That was 15 years ago I was only in business 3 years. I made every mistake a person could.
I did high quality work, but had little business training. I took jobs way bigger then I could handle. I took city contracts that took months to get paid. I could go on and on.
Just be aware it's not all watching the money roll in.
After underbiding a huge job and losing everything.(a blessing in Disguise)I started doing contract climbing. A lot better fit.
I'm thinking of giving it another go. But staying small and personal.
ksvanbrunt
ArboristSite Member
Recently started my own business and its been good. My advice is, as a few others already said, start small and work your way up. I do my work with a ford ranger and a 4×10 trailer for now. I do mostly pruning and all on my own without the headache of employees and crazy overhead. On larger jobs I sub out my chipping in exchange for contract climbing. Contract climbing on the "side" also helps with start up business to keep a cash flow if times are slow. Definitely work with your competition, not against them and know when a job is too much for you. Im am now able to bid jobs that are too big for me and pass them on to another company and earn a % for only putting in the bid. Working relationships are great!
Whats been great advertising for me is an ad in a local magazine that targets a wealthy area. I give a %5 off coupon that people go crazy for! My ad also says free education with estimate. Some people call about the education part and I have got a job out of it %100 of the time so far (and no im not cheap). I also have a lot of "cowboys" around me who dont know much about trees, besides how to "cut" them and gut them which helps my situation.
A bit of a rant but oh well. All this said, I am feeling ready for a 1 ton and 6 inch chipper but still staying solo for as long as possible.
Whats been great advertising for me is an ad in a local magazine that targets a wealthy area. I give a %5 off coupon that people go crazy for! My ad also says free education with estimate. Some people call about the education part and I have got a job out of it %100 of the time so far (and no im not cheap). I also have a lot of "cowboys" around me who dont know much about trees, besides how to "cut" them and gut them which helps my situation.
A bit of a rant but oh well. All this said, I am feeling ready for a 1 ton and 6 inch chipper but still staying solo for as long as possible.
beastmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm still friendly with 90% of the company's I've ever worked for. They send me jobs and if I go back into business so long as I'm insured and lic. Will refer me on jobs that may be to small for them but perfect for me. Never burn your bridges.
beastmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
Important also is pick your market. Fine pruning and quality tree care and those willing to pay for it is a limited market. Distance your self from the chop and go guys.
Sad thing is you'll see the most Prosperous company's doing lousy work. Most people want cheap. They act like their paying by the pound and if their tree isn't hacked or their isn't a pile of brush they don't feel like they got their money worth.
Sad thing is you'll see the most Prosperous company's doing lousy work. Most people want cheap. They act like their paying by the pound and if their tree isn't hacked or their isn't a pile of brush they don't feel like they got their money worth.
