Bars & Chain (What Would You Do?)

[Windy Isle]

Preface: I've been researching these issues on here (and another related site) for weeks now (lot's of great info in the "Chainsaw FAQ"), but some of the info is a bit outdated (manufacturing origins, discontinued models...), and I'd like to see if anyone has any new opinions (via more experience/time on their equipment). So, it being Thanksgiving, I'm hoping y'all will have some leniency on me for asking some previously asked questions...

I'm getting ready to outfit all of my (and my brother's) saws with new bars and chains. We've been running whatever came on or with the saws when we acquired them, whether new or used, and most everything is worn to the point to justify replacement. I've averaged 5-10 cords of firewood over the past 8 years (most of it with a now semi-retired MS250), but this year we started selling a bit of firewood, and so far are at about 20 cords (with more orders coming in). This purchase will be a HUGE expense for us, so I want to make the "right" decision the first time around. I recently acquired a nice chain breaker and rivet spinner, and would like to start making my own loops in the near future. Our main saws currently are one 024, two 026's, 0ne 034 (acquiring another in a week), and 0ne 036. As much as I like Stihl products, the prices are just too high for our budgets, so I've narrowed my selection down to WoodlandPro, maybe Oregon (not chain, as they are no longer making a semi-chisel chain without some form of a safety hump adjacent to the raker/depth gauge), and Carlton. We are cutting mostly alder and fir, with some hemlock, cedar, and big leaf maple thrown in. We're also cutting a lot of logging leftovers (decks and slash piles), and inevitably get into some dirty wood. As a result, it's semi-chisel all the way. Additionally, we noodle anything over about 18" in diameter.

Gauge/Pitch: My 024 came with an 18" bar running full comp .325" pitch and .063" gauge. The 026's have 20" bars with some full comp, and some skip; 3/8" pitch and .050" gauge (same setup on the 034 and 036). According to Stihl, all of these saws are also rated for .325" & .063". Would I be better off running that on the 026's (even the 034/036)? Also, should I be running full comp on bars/saws of this size? I've gotten really good at hand filing (with a Stihl file guide), but it's nice having less teeth to file.

Bars: Would we benefit from switching to replaceable tip bars? I don't feel like I've worn through enough bars in general to really know if that would save me money in the long run.

Sprockets: I'd like to milk as much performance out of these saws as I can (muffler mods planned for the future). Should I be looking for 8 tooth rim drive sprockets to increase chain speed (or am I confused about how that works)? I don't think that Stihl makes 8 tooth sprockets for these saws, but I thought there may be an aftermarket option.

 

[Franny K]

....... So, it being Thanksgiving, I'm hoping y'all will have some leniency on me

A lot of your post doesn't make too much sense. You have orders for chords of wood and a Stihl bar is way too expensive. If you were to buy a bargain bar and chain combo and didn't like it too much it would be a terrible mistake. The species of tree you mentioned have marginal value as sale-able firewood. Maple is sort of acceptable with some other stuff but most of the others a paying customer would not expect around here. I guess the short answer I would get the roll of chain first then you will know what gague thickness for the bars. I am not familiar with what sprockets go on those saws. There must be a splined drum for generic rim drive sprockets, the Stihl one might even be that as well. I suspect 7 teeth is what you will end up but you can experiment I am guessing you are after 0.325 chain. If you are really bargain minded the skip chains cost the same per length and have less cutters that being independent of the fact they are more for falling the way I see it.

 

[Modifiedmark]

I'm not sure what your getting at about the Oregon chain. The 72DPX has the bumper drive links but not many would equal that to being a safety chain.

If your down to choosing between the 72DPX and whatever Carlton has, I know that would be a no brainer for me. The Oregon all the way.

I got a roll of the Carlton SC here, and only got it because it was cheap. Thats exactly what I got too was cheap chain. The chain is crude and the quality control is really bad. I tried to file one the other day and had about half the cutters not want to even file, while the rest of them filed really easy. I had to touch it up on a grinder before I could hand file them.

That isn't the first one either, half the roll was like that. I know years ago I got some Carlton full chisel and half the cutters were not even ground.

The chain has some uneven raker setting as well. I hate to have to grind/file the cutters and set the rakers on a new out of the box chain before it will even cut worth a crap.

I know that there will be others coming behind me and say thats all they run is Carlton but when its said and done there only doing so because they got it cheap.

http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/chain/72_73_75DPX_72APX.htm

 

[Windy Isle]

A lot of your post doesn't make too much sense. You have orders for chords of wood and a Stihl bar is way too expensive. If you were to buy a bargain bar and chain combo and didn't like it too much it would be a terrible mistake. The species of tree you mentioned have marginal value as sale-able firewood. Maple is sort of acceptable with some other stuff but most of the others a paying customer would not expect around here. I guess the short answer I would get the roll of chain first then you will know what gague thickness for the bars. I am not familiar with what sprockets go on those saws. There must be a splined drum for generic rim drive sprockets, the Stihl one might even be that as well. I suspect 7 teeth is what you will end up but you can experiment I am guessing you are after 0.325 chain. If you are really bargain minded the skip chains cost the same per length and have less cutters that being independent of the fact they are more for falling the way I see it.

Huh, I thought that I was pretty articulate/clear, but maybe not... I didn't think that the Oregon/Carlton stuff was really "bargain", but maybe so on the WoodlandPro.

Where I'm located (the far U.S. PNW) fir and alder are THE woods that people burn. As far as sale-able value goes; I get $225/cord for split, and $150/cord for rounds. I'm priced lower than others in my area (I've seen over $275/cord down in Seattle).

Either way, thanks for the response.

Edit: my local Stihl dealer wants $33/loop for 33RM72, but I can get comparable Carlton or Oregon chain for about $20 online (WoodlandPro is about $16).

 

[Windy Isle]

I'm not sure what your getting at about the Oregon chain. The 72DPX has the bumper drive links but not many would equal that to being a safety chain.

If your down to choosing between the 72DPX and whatever Carlton has, I know that would be a no brainer for me. The Oregon all the way.

I got a roll of the Carlton SC here, and only got it because it was cheap. Thats exactly what I got too was cheap chain. The chain is crude and the quality control is really bad. I tried to file one the other day and had about half the cutters not want to even file, while the rest of them filed really easy. I had to touch it up on a grinder before I could hand file them.

That isn't the first one either, half the roll was like that. I know years ago I got some Carlton full chisel and half the cutters were not even ground.

The chain has some uneven raker setting as well. I hate to have to grind/file the cutters and set the rakers on a new out of the box chain before it will even cut worth a crap.

I know that there will be others coming behind me and say thats all they run is Carlton but when its said and done there only doing so because they got it cheap.

http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/chain/72_73_75DPX_72APX.htm

Thanks for the info/opinions. The 72DPX is still classified as "yellow", but IMO the extra "bumper" drive link really blurs that line. Plus, it makes it a wee little bit more difficult to lower the raker by hand. Maybe I'm making too much of an issue of it. That's why I'm posting I suppose; for the advice...

Edit: Blount recently told me via email that their Carlton chain is made in the U.S., but that their Oregon chain is made in the U.S., Canada, Brazil, and China. I've always leaned toward non-Chinese manufactured stuff, but these days that seems to be almost impossible. FWIW...

 

[Modifiedmark]

Thanks for the info/opinions. The 72DPX is still classified as "yellow", but IMO the extra "bumper" drive link really blurs that line. Plus, it makes it a wee little bit more difficult to lower the raker by hand. Maybe I'm making too much of an issue of it. That's why I'm posting I suppose; for the advice...

Not really, look close, the rakers on the DPX are higher then the bumper links so your really just filing the raker.

There smaller rakers as well so there nice to file instead of the longer ramped raker on the LGX and Stihl chains.

 

[sawfun]

Huh, I thought that I was pretty articulate/clear, but maybe not... I didn't think that the Oregon/Carlton stuff was really "bargain", but maybe so on the WoodlandPro.

Where I'm located (the far U.S. PNW) fir and alder are THE woods that people burn. As far as sale-able value goes; I get $225/cord for split, and $150/cord for rounds. I'm priced lower than others in my area (I've seen over $275/cord down in Seattle).

Either way, thanks for the response.

Edit: my local Stihl dealer wants $33/loop for 33RM72, but I can get comparable Carlton or Oregon chain for about $20 online (WoodlandPro is about $16).

I too live in the PNW and your quite correct, those are the wood types folks around here burn (including myself) as that is plentiful. Those prices sound about right too.

As far a chain goes, I bought one loop of Carlton 3/8 semi chisel years ago ond found the raker soft and the cutter horribly hard to file. I have run the Carlton .404 with good results however. And to Carlton's credit, they do not use safety or comfort ramps. That said the Oregon .325 chain all has ramps of one kind or the other, which I dislike as well. However LGX and JGX are good 3/8 Oregon chains with no ramps.

If you want performance from your 026, muffler mod it and run either Stihl RS or RM or Carlton .325 with and 18" bar and you WILL be surprised how much more power it
will feel like compared to a 20" 3/8 setup. Run a 16" the same way on the 024 and you will be pleased as well I'd bet. I have run those and found them to work great. Cannot help you with the 036 & 034 as I don't run 60cc saws. I would sell one of those and get a 044 with 28" bar for the bigger rounds you likely come across. But that is just my take.

I see guys doing what you do and take my hat off to them as it is A LOT of hard work for not much return. At least you have good pro saws that are well supported through dealerships. If you were closer, I'd let you run my saws to see what I have found to work.

 

[CR888]

Thanks for the info/opinions. The 72DPX is still classified as "yellow", but IMO the extra "bumper" drive link really blurs that line. Plus, it makes it a wee little bit more difficult to lower the raker by hand. Maybe I'm making too much of an issue of it. That's why I'm posting I suppose; for the advice...

Edit: Blount recently told me via email that their Carlton chain is made in the U.S., but that their Oregon chain is made in the U.S., Canada, Brazil, and China. I've always leaned toward non-Chinese manufactured stuff, but these days that seems to be almost impossible. FWIW...

Your not making too big of an issue about it, l have nearly used up now the last of APX and roll of DPX chain and l will NEVER buy Oregon chain again so long as it has the bumper links. They are a real pain to grind off!!! While its not a full fledged safety chain, it still is a safety chain as there is NO performance gained by adding the bumper, actually it suffers a lot. It's a shame cause the cutter geometry and quality is fairly good. It seems Oregon is moving fast away from the pro market and specialising in homeowner chain. There was no good reason other to make lawyers happy to add bumpers to their pro chain. It's now simply 'off the table' as their are much better options available. Having said that 'if' you grind off the bumpers which is tedious at best, you will end up with high performance chain noticing it immediately.

 

[Windy Isle]

Your not making too big of an issue about it, l have nearly used up now the last of APX and roll of DPX chain and l will NEVER buy Oregon chain again so long as it has the bumper links. They are a real pain to grind off!!! While its not a full fledged safety chain, it still is a safety chain as there is NO performance gained by adding the bumper, actually it suffers a lot. It's a shame cause the cutter geometry and quality is fairly good. It seems Oregon is moving fast away from the pro market and specialising in homeowner chain. There was no good reason other to make lawyers happy to add bumpers to their pro chain. It's now simply 'off the table' as their are much better options available. Having said that 'if' you grind off the bumpers which is tedious at best, you will end up with high performance chain noticing it immediately.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels that way. Do you have any thoughts on semi-chisel that you might start using when your Oregon is used up?

 

[Windy Isle]

I too live in the PNW and your quite correct, those are the wood types folks around here burn (including myself) as that is plentiful. Those prices sound about right too.

As far a chain goes, I bought one loop of Carlton 3/8 semi chisel years ago ond found the raker soft and the cutter horribly hard to file. I have run the Carlton .404 with good results however. And to Carlton's credit, they do not use safety or comfort ramps. That said the Oregon .325 chain all has ramps of one kind or the other, which I dislike as well. However LGX and JGX are good 3/8 Oregon chains with no ramps.

If you want performance from your 026, muffler mod it and run either Stihl RS or RM or Carlton .325 with and 18" bar and you WILL be surprised how much more power it
will feel like compared to a 20" 3/8 setup. Run a 16" the same way on the 024 and you will be pleased as well I'd bet. I have run those and found them to work great. Cannot help you with the 036 & 034 as I don't run 60cc saws. I would sell one of those and get a 044 with 28" bar for the bigger rounds you likely come across. But that is just my take.

I see guys doing what you do and take my hat off to them as it is A LOT of hard work for not much return. At least you have good pro saws that are well supported through dealerships. If you were closer, I'd let you run my saws to see what I have found to work.

Thanks for all the info/advice! I've definitely thought about getting a 044 (or two, or three...), but I really try to stay away from any wood that warrants using a saw of that size. I will certainly take your thoughts on this matter into consideration. Next, I need to learn what all goes into a muffler mod...

 

[Deleted member 83629]

i would use a carlton speed tip with stihl chain you can't go wrong with this combo. the stihl chain is also a better chain than any chain produced by oregon or carlton.

 

[sawfun]

Thanks for all the infoiadvice! I've definitely thought about getting a 044 (or two, or three...), but I really try to stay away from any wood that warrants using a saw of that size. I will certainly take your thoughts on this matter into consideration. Next, I need to learn what all goes into a muffler mod...

I use and see 044's used a lot around here. Mostly on the 24" stuff which is the largest the forest service allows anyway. We have a lot of Doug Fir that diameter and I assume you do as well.

 

[Little Al]

It could possibly be an idea to purchase a loop of various makes & models of chain & try & choose which suits your cutting/ you like best. It would be a waste of $'s to buy 25 or 100ft roll of brand x model y to find another brand type is better suited to your requirements If you are selling wood you can always add a few $'s per cord to cover the cost of quality bars/ chains. I service kit for a pro company & although we don't use their saws we only use Stihl chain for us it, wears less & mostly keeps it's edge longer, if like us the quantity you buy /use may reflect on the to you price. I would suggest though if it's turning into a sort of business venture, then you will get a better bang for your buck using better quality components.

 

[CR888]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels that way. Do you have any thoughts on semi-chisel that you might start using when your Oregon is used up?

l am onto a roll of Stihl 36RM (3/8 .063). Some stihl chain has bumpers so specify with your dealer that you don't want it. l primarily run semi chisel chain due to its wear/durablity qualities. lf l lived over the pond in the US my chain choice would be different for sure, l would run a lot more full chisel 36RS (3/8 .063). l also run Carlton semi, GB evo china chain, Windsor, and a few others.

 

[beaglebriar]

Personally I'd do what makes sense to keep your cost down and business profitable. I've been using Carlton chain for a few years now cuz that's what my dealer friend stocks and it's reasonable. Full chisel in hardwood and I have no complaints. The woodland pro loops that I've bought are actually Carlton as well and again no issues and nothing bad to say about it other than Bailey's shipping is ridiculous. For bars I'm going the Jap route when it comes time to replace. Locally my husky dealer wants about 75 bucks for a 20" bar. Plus tax will put it close the price of a Sugi /Total bar. Just a few thoughts from a firewood hack. Hope it helps.

 

[Windy Isle]

Hey folks, I just wanted to say thanks for all of the advice and opinions regarding my post. The information that I received really did help me make a decision on what to buy. After much consideration, I ended up going with a couple of Carlton setups, which I purchased from that online retailer named after that really big jungle. I would've gone with Bailey's, but they actually didn't stock what I wanted.

I went with A1EP chain, and Speed Tip bars (18" for the 026, and 20" for the 036). I was really on the fence about switching the 026 over to .325" & .063", but I had trouble finding the right chain in stock. Also, as much as some folks might shun this, I do value having the same size chain on multiple saws, especially for once I'm able to afford a roll. One of the chains I got for my 026 is two drive links too long (it was a good price), so now I just need to find some A1EP presets/tie straps. I would like to get some skip chain (A1EP-SK) for my 036/034, but I can only find it in 100' rolls.

Initially, I'm feeling quite content with my decisions/purchases, but if money wasn't an issue, I would've gone with Stihl. Their prices are just ridiculous. My local dealer is even higher than others I've been to, probably because I live on an island. Although I am making some money with my saws, I'm a very small-time operation. I'm a full-time student, with a wife and a couple of sex trophies at home, so money isn't exactly burning holes in my pockets...

 

[sunfish]

I like and use Carlton Speed Tip bars, but much prefer Oregon chain to all others. Use DPX & BPX mostly. That little bumper is a non issue for me. I order loops from loggerchain.com, hard to beat the price there.

 

[MGoBlue]

For future reference, my son just picked up one of these:
http://leftcoastsupplies.com/product/18-gb-arbor-pro-bar-325-063/
If your budget is very tight, it cost $14 for an 18"! Very solid bar so far for the money. Seriously, $14.

 

[sunfish]

For future reference, my son just picked up one of these:
http://leftcoastsupplies.com/product/18-gb-arbor-pro-bar-325-063/
If your budget is very tight, it cost $14 for an 18"! Very solid bar so far for the money. Seriously, $14.

That's insanely cheap! I might have to try one of those.

 

[MGoBlue]

You could have almost 6 of these for the cost of a 20" sugi.