Becoming and Arborist

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I believe it is so you cant cheat.
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Cheat who? If I refer to texts to pass the test, I will refer to those texts when I discuss tree work with the client.

I don't want to cheat myself, I don't want to cheat my involvement in the ISA.

But if the ISA can't figure out an online test, they're not ready for the 21rst century.

As to living outside of some ####wads prefered circle of Urban centres or be left behind: It's an obsolete mindset, I'm unconcerened.

If the ISA is indeed stuck with the likes of him, I am quite prepared to procede without him, happily so.



RedlineIt
 
RedlineIt said:
Cheat who? If I refer to texts to pass the test, I will refer to those texts when I discuss tree work with the client.

I don't want to cheat myself, I don't want to cheat my involvement in the ISA.

But if the ISA can't figure out an online test, they're not ready for the 21rst century.

As to living outside of some ####wads prefered circle of Urban centres or be left behind: It's an obsolete mindset, I'm unconcerened.

If the ISA is indeed stuck with the likes of him, I am quite prepared to procede without him, happily so.



RedlineIt
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It is meant to be a CLOSED book exam. Pretty straight forward. So if you use text or any other cliff notes etc you will in fact be cheating by their definition.

if it was OPEN book ANYONE could pass it. I hope you dont bring text,manulas etc to customers property thats not very proffessional IMO. I wouldnt want a doctor to tell me I think I got it, while thumbing through his text book! :dizzy:

BERMIE

Come take the MCA exam and the ISA all at the same time. You'll have the highest regarded Arborist exam in america done and then the 'other' one.
 
I think many missed my point, I have no beef with arborists having anything to do with trees, except telling treeguys how to do thier job. And having much to do with trees around powerlines. Thats it. I know there is a massive amount of knowlege out there, arborists play a valuable role. All I know how to do well is cut them down. Each to his own, no disrespect meant to arborists who use thier education to help.
 
clearance said:
I think many missed my point, I have no beef with arborists having anything to do with trees, except telling treeguys how to do thier job. And having much to do with trees around powerlines. Thats it. I know there is a massive amount of knowlege out there, arborists play a valuable role. All I know how to do well is cut them down. Each to his own, no disrespect meant to arborists who use thier education to help.
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x's 2!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with you 1000%. We have a lot of text book heroes around Cali. What an f***ing joke most of them are. I would love to have that feather in my cap. And at some point will go for my isa certs. BUT, I have been climbing for a long time now and have the real world experience to back up my fancy papers.........:chainsawguy:

P.S. That MCA exam, now theres a test. I would love to try for that one in the future, but its a long ways off from what i have heard about it. Kudos to the men and woman who have passed it.
 
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BostonBull said:
You should come up to Massachusetts and take the MCA exam. It is widely regarded as the toughest in the country. And the ISA test is based on it. When the ISA test first came out they actually "grandfathered" (just gave) MCA's their ISA certificate!

If you can pass the MCA exam not only is it more rewarding, but you'll fly through the multiple choice LOL!!! ISA test.

Good Luck and you will be that much further ahead, and more valuable to yourself and your co and clients no matter what you take and PASS.

Stay Safe!
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Massawhatits not me I have more respect for myself than to go into
those parts of the world :hmm3grin2orange:
 
Redline, if you feel so strongly about the test being online, you must have said that on that member survey that you filled out. Plus, you have sent your well-considered opinion to the staff and the committee. Right???

BCMA is online, at centers where proctors will prevent cheating. nO reason i can see not to do the other 3 tests that way.

Bull, I take texts and manuals into the field all the time. It builds credibility while giving the client the gbest service, and avoiding the usual bs opinion: "This tree has seen better days; time to remove it."

:spam:
 
Personally, I'm not a big fan of certified arborists. Frankly, the test is too easy, and like people have already said there are ca's who have barely had anything to do with trees. For example, if i hire a certified electrician, i expect him to know everything about wiring a house-he doesn't just specialize in 110 and leaves the 220 for someone else. It's part of the reason i haven't got my certification. There are a couple areas of tree work i'm very weak on. But if i were to tell someone i am a ca, they are going to believe i know everything about trees, and that is just false advertising. I think the test needs to be harder so that the ca's are a more elite bunch. (Of course, then the isa won't be receiving as many dues.)


Frankly, i let my work speak for itself-i don't need a couple of letters after my name to fool people into thinking i know a thing or two about trees.
 
beowulf343 said:
Personally, I'm not a big fan of certified arborists. Frankly, the test is too easy, and like people have already said there are ca's who have barely had anything to do with trees. For example, if i hire a certified electrician, i expect him to know everything about wiring a house-he doesn't just specialize in 110 and leaves the 220 for someone else. It's part of the reason i haven't got my certification. There are a couple areas of tree work i'm very weak on. But if i were to tell someone i am a ca, they are going to believe i know everything about trees, and that is just false advertising. I think the test needs to be harder so that the ca's are a more elite bunch. (Of course, then the isa won't be receiving as many dues.)


Frankly, i let my work speak for itself-i don't need a couple of letters after my name to fool people into thinking i know a thing or two about trees.
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I have not taken the test yet but do not feel it to be easy
at all and continuing education to keep it means more study.
I do feel it is a starting point and a degree in horticulture is
more a set apart from the rest but why would it make any
differance unless you plan to use the education? I see the
jobs listed on their site and laugh at the pay for a certified
arborist I don't see monetary benefits but knowledge and
a better self esteem yes!
 
I studied right along side my wife as she was working towards her certification. I don't think it's too easy. As a matter of fact, I'm sure I couldn't pass the test. It's not that I don't know trees, it is just that it requires you to produce specifics on the many topics: nutrition, biology, fertilization, dendrology, safety, rigging, climbing, among others. Through my years in the tree industry I have a strong working knowledge of all these areas but have difficulty actually sitting down and taking the test. I didn't finish school for that exact reason. I applaud anybody that has the ability to pass the exam. Is it the pinnacle of what an arborist is? No. Does it even mean you are going to be a decent person to deal with? No. But in studying for and passing the test, it is a base line for a career in arboriculture.

D Mc

I do find it ironic that many of you have missed a point here. Many are saying as how they haven't met a good cert arb or are claiming that they are only "book learned". The original poster here is an experienced tree guy, working for many years in the business as a climber. Why on earth aren't you encouraging him to pursue becoming a Certified Arborist so that he can be one of the (apparently) few who actually knows the whole business?

I will also state that Certified Arborist is the beginning...if you want that person who does know it all, the designation is BOARD CERTIFIED MASTER ARBORIST. If you want someone who can DO it...you have to find a qualified climber. And I'm sorry, guys, but there are a lot of climbers out there who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a tree with a saw.

S Mc
 
D Mc said:
.if you want that person who does know it all, the designation is BOARD CERTIFIED MASTER ARBORIST. If you want someone who can DO it...you have to find a qualified climber. And I'm sorry, guys, but there are a lot of climbers out there who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a tree with a saw.
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Ouch! That's the best reason to get the CA, to understand trees better before cutting on them, and making kinder cuts.

O and many other BCMAs are also Certified Tree Workers, in the saddle regularly to keep their hands on trees and learn from them. We all need to find a balance between field and book learning if we want to be competent at our jobs.
 
D Mc said:
Why on earth aren't you encouraging him to pursue becoming a Certified Arborist so that he can be one of the (apparently) few who actually knows the whole business?

I will also state that Certified Arborist is the beginning...if you want that person who does know it all, the designation is BOARD CERTIFIED MASTER ARBORIST.

S Mc
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I gotta say missy, if you are pursuing a BCMA, this is a pretty poor attitude. Believe it or not, some of us doers actually know a thing or two they don't teach in the books. It's often argued that getting your certification proves that a person is willing to learn. Yet the attitude you display shows that a BCMA doesn't need to learn anything more because they already know it all.

Being a CA doesn't prove that someone knows the whole business. Arborists specialize in so many different aspects of tree work, i'm not sure someone could be an expert in them all. I personally know CA's who work in greenhouses, in nurseries, as trimmers, as removal men, as bucket operators, as climbers, as groundies, as line clearance trimmers, as city foresters, as loggers, as fellers, as teachers of environmental sciences, as landscapers, and the list can go on. Now a CA may know a little about a lot of these different aspects of treework, but can they possibly know everything about them all? It's a continuing learning experience for us all. Heck, i've been in the tree business for decades, yet a young punk showed me something a few weeks back that I didn't know.

This is my biggest gripe with the whole certification thing. Too many are not willing to listen because they think they know it all. Not saying all CA's are bad because I've worked with some that know their stuff. But this attitude seems to have become more prevelant among the younger CA's.
 
Fast Freddy, I actually totally agree with you. And I am sorry that my comment that BCMAs "know it all" was misconstrued as meaning that they then don't have to KEEP learning. However, to obtain the BCMA is a conscientious dedication to a great deal of learning and active field work. Missy?

Any Certification in and of itself is meaningless unless you constantly strive to improve your skills and knowledge. However, it is a regulated baseline. So if anyone wants to go for it...do it. Again, missy??

I had the wonderful circumstance of having a live in mentor who is immensely experienced in the business and so was (and am on an ongoing basis) able to run questions and thoughts by him. The dialog is constant and we discuss new ideas or articles one of us has read. I don't just sit in the office. My husband and I ARE the company. He is the high climber and I am the ground crew. I am now able to answer client's questions on my own without waiting for him to get out of the tree. This has only made us a more valid company. Of course, the fact that, even after almost 40 years, he is still the best climber/trimmer many of you could hope to see is an irreplaceable asset. MISSY???

But really, Freddy, missy???

SMc
 
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beowulf343 said:
Personally, I'm not a big fan of certified arborists. Frankly, the test is too easy, and like people have already said there are ca's who have barely had anything to do with trees.
Click to expand...

I've got a few Franklies that come to mind too, having just wrote a big topic on this subject yesterday.

The test may not be real hard, but Frankly, there are still quite a few people who don't pass the test.

The test may not be real hard, but Frankly, in no way does it stop a homeowner from expecting even more.

The test may not be real hard, but Frankly, I've seen a couple of folks with Masters degrees who were less skilled in the field.

The test may not be real hard, but Frankly, it can't be taken and passed with no experience of any kind.

I suppose it would be nice if the test covered more territory, but on the other hand, it would be unrealistic to expect a rather new certification program to be on par with other professions like medical or electrical that have had much more time to develop systems for qualification.

The point is, the Certified Arborist system is slowly improving, and is better than doing nothing. It can be incrementally added to just the way that virtually every other profession did.

It's basically "acclimatizing" a profession to testing. To dump 4 times the testing on arborists right now, would be as harsh as taking a greenhouse shrub from Washington, and planting it in the middle of Ontario, Canada.
 
M.D. Vaden said:
I've got a few Franklies that come to mind too, having just wrote a big topic on this subject yesterday.

The test may not be real hard, but Frankly, there are still quite a few people who don't pass the test.

The test may not be real hard, but Frankly, in no way does it stop a homeowner from expecting even more.

The test may not be real hard, but Frankly, I've seen a couple of folks with Masters degrees who were less skilled in the field.

The test may not be real hard, but Frankly, it can't be taken and passed with no experience of any kind.

I suppose it would be nice if the test covered more territory, but on the other hand, it would be unrealistic to expect a rather new certification program to be on par with other professions like medical or electrical that have had much more time to develop systems for qualification.

The point is, the Certified Arborist system is slowly improving, and is better than doing nothing. It can be incrementally added to just the way that virtually every other profession did.

It's basically "acclimatizing" a profession to testing. To dump 4 times the testing on arborists right now, would be as harsh as taking a greenhouse shrub from Washington, and planting it in the middle of Ontario, Canada.
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I totally agree 100% especially until me takes test:monkey:
 
BostonBull said:
It is meant to be a CLOSED book exam. Pretty straight forward. So if you use text or any other cliff notes etc you will in fact be cheating by their definition.

if it was OPEN book ANYONE could pass it. I hope you dont bring text,manulas etc to customers property thats not very proffessional IMO. I wouldnt want a doctor to tell me I think I got it, while thumbing through his text book! :dizzy:

BERMIE

Come take the MCA exam and the ISA all at the same time. You'll have the highest regarded Arborist exam in america done and then the 'other' one.
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Bermie, I agree with ya on the ISA exams and its obvious to me that they want to be sure people know their stuff, ergo no on-line testing though I'm sure there are many things that could be covered sitting at a PC, heck I've learned more on-line (here in particular and on my PC geek site) than I probably ever could in a classroom (I am a motivated learner though which I suppose makes a difference.)
Now, on what I bolded in your quote (Bostonbull), hm, this was exactly why I chose my doctor many years ago, fresh out of med college and very green. I came to her with a problem that was perplexing and instead of coming up with a line of BS and guessing, she outright said 'Wow, I don't know, lets do some reading.' and proceeded to look up a few things and gaining a great deal of respect from me for her honesty and willingness to hit the books and dig into a problem. Medicine is a huge field and no one doctor is going to know everything which is why they specialize and having one who is willing to admit that they don't know something and do the reading is special to me. I've been under her care for nearly 20yrs now and she's also become a surgeon in that time and never stops learning, me like :) Just thought I'd point out this aspect as I think it applies to many areas of specialization including tree work/arborculture. There are many 'never-ending' learning curves and I have found that far too many folks get comphy on a plateau and refuse to move forward or refresh their knowledge base (keep up to date etc.), change habits or gain new insight. Granted there are those who simply aren't that bright, but some of them can be among the best at what they do, especially if the enjoy/love what they do. (ramble ramble, gah)
To the OP, more power to ya man you have a great attitude and I wish you the best in your endeavors! You have also been given some excellent advice from those in the know too, take heed!
Okay, blathered and de-railed enough here for now :D

:cheers:

Serge
 
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Sprig said:
instead of coming up with a line of BS and guessing, she outright said 'Wow, I don't know, lets do some reading.' and proceeded to look up a few things and gaining a great deal of respect from me for her honesty and willingness to hit the books and dig into a problem.
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Sherlock Holmes: "Don't theorize without the facts."

Clients enjoy being in on the mystery, seeing me paging through the references and pointing to the plant or pest they are wondering about.

Doctors who theorize first can be dangerous. If they guess "lymphoma" before looking at the evidence closely, they can miss leukemia, and the untreated or mistreated patient gets closer to death.

This is no good, believe me.

:censored:
 

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