Becoming and Arborist

[lxt]

I totally disagree with you clearance and lxt on the need for CA to be able to climb. I come from an industrial forestry background (a Registered Professional Forester). When I designed logging road and cutblocks, I didn't need to know all the intricacies of falling or running an excavator. All I said was this is where the road goes and those are the trees that will be cut, make it so.

Same for a CA. When I make a prescription, I'm not telling the climber how to do the work, only what work needs to be done. Big difference. I may tell him how to do the work, but that would only be within a training scenario.

Finally, as someone else said, the CA is only a certification. As such, it has value only if a customer perceives it to have value (as the holder of a couple of expensive but now worthless certifications). Around here, the certification obviously has value, because the municipalities require a CA to do tree assessment and arborist reports (not someone who is a very good climber).

The ISA has done a very good marketing job, by getting the public to believe that only a CA has the qualifications to take care of their trees. Not the first time the public has had their attitudes defined by marketing. But if the public believes that a CA is required, then the CA certification has value.

You are kidding? Arborist`s that dont climb...........MMmmmm all I can say is Nice!! but they wanna oversee me? tell me how to trim, remove, etc... The problem I see is some of these folks get their Cert. & think they are to good for the physical side of it but want the money cause they have the paper!!

Alot of these certified jokes cant even be a good groundie, thats sad!! BC you dont agree with me or clearance thats cool, I dont know how old you are or how long you`ve been in this field, But when ISA was the NAA climbing was a requirement not an option, Dont you feel embarassed to know the Certification you now hold has been diluted & cheapened for the sake of obtaining more members, which means more money think on that!!

Your Cert has no value if you have to hire someone to do the above ground work, the public will soon wonder why< you wont fool them for long!! where I live this is exactly what is happening, town Arborist`s dont climb(most anyway). So when they need an inspection of the crown or other above ground task they call me, I always ask why didnt your arborist do this? its his job, its what you hired him for!! Most people dealing in the trades started at the bottom & through education have moved up!! not the opposite.


LXT....................

 

[treeseer]

when ISA was the NAA climbing was a requirement .

NOw that the rant has whipped you two into a fever pitch and major delusions, let me point out that the ISA was never the NAA.

Also, let's all agree that all certifications improve those who have them, because they prove heir knowledge and ability.

Let's also agree that anyone who specifies work they do not understand, without trying to consult with others more knowledgeable, so they can get it right, is a fraud and a menace. However, have a little sympathy for the bloke who is dumped into a municipal job with a lot of responsibility and without the qualifications to handle it.

One city here dumped their utility forester into the arborist position because he has a CA. This hack condemns valuable trees because of slight leans and dead branches, but the city won't pay to have him trained in tree risk management.

I have all 4 ISA certs, and EHAP etc., but I would not be caught dead telling a PHC specialist how to apply chemicals, or a line clearance technician in a bucket what pole to use. I may know climbing better than they do, but climbing is just one aspect of the business.

 

[BostonBull]

What do you mean me & clearance arent Certified? This is exactly what I mean, did you read my previous posts, Not Certified.....Horse s*&t !!! Not ISA certified....... But certified in every other facet of the field! which is more than most ISA arb`s I know have!!

Not to bust your chops but that means your QUALIFIED......NOT Certified. Certified implicates you have received a CERTIFICATE, CERTIFYING you in a certain field. You have none so your not certified.

 

[BRCCArborist]

Well, I have the arborist cert. study guide & if the questions in there reflect the ones on the test then it is easy, the only part I would need to really study on would be fertilizers & application of chemical treatments, I also know many Arb`s that took the test through the Union I used to be a member of, test was through the Pen-Del Chapter.

What do you mean me & clearance arent Certified? This is exactly what I mean, did you read my previous posts, Not Certified.....Horse s*&t !!! Not ISA certified....... But certified in every other facet of the field! which is more than most ISA arb`s I know have!!

Funny how all the guys from my union at the time went to get their cert. were union stewards & officers, even they said the only reason they got the cert. was so the inspectors would think they were more knowlegeable..... was kinda a joke amongst all of us, & funnier yet.... when they needed help on some big trim or Removal...... they`d ask for me!!

I would make it known the cert. arb`s needed my help, which usually meant they were helping me as I`d get stuck doing the whole damn thing anyway, me & other guys just for fun would make our own cert. out of our kids crayons bring em in & give it to the GF, We figured it was just as good!!!

LXT...................

Well I should have stated "ISA Certification", so I apologize. What I was driving at however is that this thread was started by a guy who was simply looking for some advice on studying for and passing the ISA Certified Arborist exam. Why use that as an excuse to bash the certification? If CA's are coming to you for advice, then why are you complaining? Sounds like you are getting along in the industry just fine. But for me, the ISA Certification has been really good for me and what I want to do in my career. I think its a great supplement to my 2 year degree and 6+ years experience (Nursery/landscape, pest management). Thats just my opinion, I certainly dont know or claim to know everything on tree care. If you are doing fine without the CA tag, great! Im just saying that , for many people, its definately something worth working towards obtaining while getting the experience at the same time.

 

[lxt]

I stand corrected TCIA was formerly NAA, sorry!! But the standard was still a lot higher than what it is now!!

Bostonbull, I am a certified Line Clearance Tree Trimmer, have passed testing requirements set forth by ACRT in other aspects of the field also, etc..etc..

the LCTT certification was done through the Dept of Labor & Industry & JATC, My apprenticeship training & scholastic acheivements(spelling) are I beleive on a level over & above anything the ISA has to offer.

I am not ranting please dont take it as such, I just dont beleive in Non-climbing Arborists, thats a joke!!! sorry if this offends, if it does offend you wait till you work for some of the bigger companies, guys in the field will bust your chops constantly the CA designation is considered a money grabbing joke. sorry!!!!!

LXT....................

 

[BRCCArborist]

I am not ranting please dont take it as such, I just dont beleive in Non-climbing Arborists, thats a joke!!! sorry if this offends, if it does offend you wait till you work for some of the bigger companies, guys in the field will bust your chops constantly the CA designation is considered a money grabbing joke. sorry!!!!!

LXT....................

You do have to admit though, that there is much more to arboriculture than just climbing. There are plenty of pests, diseases, drainage and soil issues (pH, nutrient deficiency) that need to be diagnosed and treated. What trees to plant, and where to plant them, dealing with contractors when developers want to preserve trees, evaluating a hazardous tree and finding ways to mitigate the hazard are all issues that need to be dealt with on a daily basis. Dont even get me started on things like Gypsy Moth suppression (which is a large part of my job in the fall) that involve surveying, writing reports to the state dept of agriculture to approve spraying, dealing with water and wildlife issues, confused homeowners, and lots of GIS and GPS software .

I know how to climb, and I own all the essential gear to do so. I just do not do it at my job, nor would I feel confident in telling an arborist the correct way to climb, other than making sure they follow safety guidelines to the letter. I just dont have that kind of experience yet. So, I dont do it, it is not my specialty, and I will admit that. Every doctor, auto mechanic, gunsmith, lawyer, construction worker, etc, has areas they excel in and specialize in, and other areas they only have a general or somewhat limited idea of, arborists are no different in my opinion.

 

[Sprig]

I stand corrected TCIA was formerly NAA, sorry!! But the standard was still a lot higher than what it is now!!

Bostonbull, I am a certified Line Clearance Tree Trimmer, have passed testing requirements set forth by ACRT in other aspects of the field also, etc..etc..

the LCTT certification was done through the Dept of Labor & Industry & JATC, My apprenticeship training & scholastic acheivements(spelling) are I beleive on a level over & above anything the ISA has to offer.

I am not ranting please dont take it as such, I just dont beleive in Non-climbing Arborists, thats a joke!!! sorry if this offends, if it does offend you wait till you work for some of the bigger companies, guys in the field will bust your chops constantly the CA designation is considered a money grabbing joke. sorry!!!!!

LXT....................

If you don't mean a ha-ha joke that is sad for people like me who'd one day like to have some sort of certification (even if for consulting purposes), since climbing stairs fer me can be a chore let alone a tree. Do love trees though...............hmmmmmmmm.



Serge

 

[BostonBull]

I am not ranting please dont take it as such, I just dont beleive in Non-climbing Arborists, thats a joke!!! sorry if this offends, if it does offend you wait till you work for some of the bigger companies, guys in the field will bust your chops constantly the CA designation is considered a money grabbing joke. sorry!!!!!

LXT....................

We dont see too many NON climbing Arborists in the industry around here, and if they are they are paid as such.

The MCA designation carries a TON of respect around here. That is because it is THE hardest CA test in the country. The ISA test is nothing in MA. and many MCA members would concur with the $$$$ statement above.

 

[RedlineIt]

mattfr12 i climb trees 6 days a week year round mon-sat. only reason i want the cert is a raise at work. its like 2-3$ an hour.

Hey folks, the Original Poster is back! None too soon.

Matt, if you're literate at a ninth-grade level, have short-term memory skills and have a couple hundred bucks saved up you don't mind giving to the ISA, you're a dead-on lock for certification. Easiest raise you'll ever earn.

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Back to our originally scheduled program:

BC WetCoast:

The ISA has done a very good marketing job, by getting the public to believe that only a CA has the qualifications

All due respect BC WetCoast, but in which media has this marketing job been advanced, developed or implemented? TV, Radio, Newspapers? The ISA has it's own website, but so does Exploding Dog. Google on which has more hits.

Municipalities know the ISA and how to be sure an ISA cert does the work, but the public? They wouldn't know the ISA from the Ice Skating Association.

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clearance,

Just for laffs, why not become ISA certified yourself? I totally respect the work the CUA's do.

You seem determined to bring the ivory tower down, I think it would be cool if the next time someone said "you're not certified", you could have a platform from which you could tell them to jump.

------------------

Not to bust your chops but that means your QUALIFIED......NOT Certified. Certified implicates you have received a CERTIFICATE, CERTIFYING you in a certain field. You have none so your not certified.

BostonBull,

This is the worst example of reaching for semantics I'm likely to see. The "C" in CUA means what in your world, Boston? Cualifed?


Also look up implies vs implicates, Boston. I've been saying that certain certifications require a ninth-grade level of comprehension. It's possible I shot a wee bit high.

------------


Maybe it's just me matt, get your cetification, enjoy your raise in pay, but expect nothing else.


RedlineIt

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[lxt]

If you don't mean a ha-ha joke that is sad for people like me who'd one day like to have some sort of certification (even if for consulting purposes), since climbing stairs fer me can be a chore let alone a tree. Do love trees though...............hmmmmmmmm.



Serge

I understand your position sprig & I feel for people in a situation such as yours, However some things arent meant to be, imagine a surgeon with very bad eyesight, a mechanic with arthritis(severe). Im not against a consulting certification but designate it as such!!!

Brcc, I do agree with some of what you say, however the jobs/careers you use as an example range from construction site to office work.

using your example an auto mechanic could choose not to do brakes, that may be.....but I bet he had to at one point! the gunsmith might not hunt but I bet he still shoots the gun!! the lawyer...well thats a whole nother story LOL.

the point Im trying to make is most start out at the bottom & work their way up!! If you are unable to then I beleive there outta be a course for what you intend on doing....such as consulting but dont put it in the same realm as CA,

Ill ask this again;doesnt it embarass you to know that the Arborist Cert. you hold has been diluted & cheapened so as to obtain a larger membership thus increasing profit by way of dues ?

do you CA`s really think your cert. is valuable when you dont provide any above ground service that the public has hired you for? How long do you think the public will want to pay you for a service that you must have someone else do because some of you cant ?

those CA`s that climb & engage in tree care operations, God Bless you, cuz your doing what your suppose to in regards to the title that you hold.

LXT................

 

[BostonBull]

The C in my Certification (MCA) stands for certified. The original poster was not a CERTIFIED arborist. Only a Qualified one thats all. I was getting ruffled listening to guys bash CA. The MCA is what ALL other tests in the country are based on, like it or not! And I am quite proud of my designation.

Thanks for the input............:spam:

And yes you are 100% correct I meant implies. I was watching Fox News and they were talking about some court case at the time and use the term implicates........

 

[lxt]

We dont see too many NON climbing Arborists in the industry around here, and if they are they are paid as such.

The MCA designation carries a TON of respect around here. That is because it is THE hardest CA test in the country. The ISA test is nothing in MA. and many MCA members would concur with the $$$$ statement above.

I can beleive this!! that is why I said I would come to MA to take the test rather than go through the ISA. I just recently joined the Tree wardens & foresters assoc. of MA, PA has nothing like this & I consider your neck of the woods in regards to Cert`s & knowledge to be top tier!!

Id move east if I could, my area has many CA`s charging fee`s for looking at stuff & then telling the Home owner they dont do this or that & they should hire someone to remedy the problem, only good thing about that is I usually get the job, only to hear "i just paid x number of dollars to be told to hire someone" makes mr. & mrs home owner wander what kinda biz were in!!

LXT................

 

[BostonBull]

I can beleive this!! that is why I said I would come to MA to take the test rather than go through the ISA. I just recently joined the Tree wardens & foresters assoc. of MA, PA has nothing like this & I consider your neck of the woods in regards to Cert`s & knowledge to be top tier!!

Id move east if I could, my area has many CA`s charging fee`s for looking at stuff & then telling the Home owner they dont do this or that & they should hire someone to remedy the problem, only good thing about that is I usually get the job, only to hear "i just paid x number of dollars to be told to hire someone" makes mr. & mrs home owner wander what kinda biz were in!!

LXT................

That wouldn't fly around here. We are in the top region of MA for Arboriculture, business is very competitive with mostly good reputable Co's, with some hacks in there too. No matter what though, EVERYONE gives free quotes. I couldn't imagine the look on peoples faces if I told them there was a fee for looking at work................

 

[DonnyO]

I can beleive this!! that is why I said I would come to MA to take the test rather than go through the ISA. I just recently joined the Tree wardens & foresters assoc. of MA, PA has nothing like this & I consider your neck of the woods in regards to Cert`s & knowledge to be top tier!!
LXT................

amen brother!

 

[clearance]

I totally disagree with you clearance and lxt on the need for CA to be able to climb. I come from an industrial forestry background (a Registered Professional Forester). When I designed logging road and cutblocks, I didn't need to know all the intricacies of falling or running an excavator. All I said was this is where the road goes and those are the trees that will be cut, make it so.

Same for a CA.

I'll bet all the fallers and roadbuilders loved you, not. I have worked in the bush, and the cutblocks look smaller, stupider and crazier every year. To the point where, when you see them and the predominant lean of the trees, you wonder "who was the genuis who layed this out". I mean such things as triangles at the bottom of the block, so the timber has to be crossed, felled against the lean, and other inanities. Things which make an already dangerous and tough job even harder. Cutblocks angled in such a way to the road that it is hard to get a straight line to the yarder, meaning blocks have to be changed more and siwashes happen.

"Here is where the road goes 'cause I said", awesome, you ever ask the men who build roads for thier opinion? So it matters not to you that guys are running hoes on really steep slopes where, with a small slide, they will go a few hundred feet down the hill? As has happened when roads have to be pushed into steep ground on the coast.

Make it so huh?, you are one arrogant man,

 

[treeseer]

lxt, if I go lame tomorrow and have to stop climbing after 43 years, does that mean my job description will change? I hope not. Please consider widening your definition of "ARBORIST". :bang:

BBull, consultations are paid opinions on how to manage trees. Clients pay for them because any tree service owner who gives opinions is de facto biased toward the services they profit on, so their opinion is not objective or independent. It may be accurate and helpful, or it may be worse then useless useless.

I have heard of research implicating that listening to Fox News will lower your IQ, but I cannot orientate you to the journal it was published in. :jester:

I agree that ISA cert SEEMS to have gotten a lot easier, but consider that it may look that way to us because we know more now. I got my CA 15 years ago and my BCMA 3 years ago, and they have been excellent investments. If nothing else they force me to get out of my own head once in a while so I get enough CEU's.

 

[clearance]

lxt, if I go lame tomorrow and have to stop climbing after 43 years, does that mean my job description will change? I hope not. Please consider widening your definition of "ARBORIST". :bang:

You are a climber, if you stop climbing you were a climber, and as such have every right to make suggestions to people about climbing. People who direct me who have climbed get some respect, right off the bat, because they have Actually Done the Work and know what they are talking about. That ain't my beef, never was, if you have done it you are in the pack.

 

[BostonBull]

I have heard of research implicating that listening to Fox News will lower your IQ, but I cannot orientate you to the journal it was published in. :jester:

Well that explains it!

 

[clearance]

BC Wetcoast

I am going to add something, my observations as a man who has worked in the bush and has a bit of common sense mean little to you, so check this out. The thread is the one about rope pulling, and the post you made is #88, on page 6. Your own words, couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[ropensaddle]

You are a climber, if you stop climbing you were a climber, and as such have every right to make suggestions to people about climbing. People who direct me who have climbed get some respect, right off the bat, because they have Actually Done the Work and know what they are talking about. That ain't my beef, never was, if you have done it you are in the pack.

Yeah I agree with that,I have problems with that at times myself.
The wife has learned a lot by watching me and lowering limbs,
sometimes she say's why did you not do it like? It pisses me off
and then she asks whats wrong,I am nice and say it was a bad
tree! Everyone thinks they know what to do but they have not
been there. I have a friend very good climber, I usually don't
raise my hair if he says something as we have both helped by
seeing something the climber did not. I used to be his forman
on a climb crew for powerlines and we were asked by our manager
if we could get down a tree that our competition refused.
I talked it over with mike and the rest of the crew, told
the manager we could do it if time was no object!
This tree I would refuse now,it was a huge sweetgum that
was in intersecting three phase and busy intersection!
The gum was rotten at the base but green in canopy
and there was a strap 10 inch tension wood left of a 45
inch stump. The giraffe got all he could and at 90 feet
overhanging limbs were still 12 diameter.
We started setting ropes and tied them tight to trees
in a spiral fashon,This bucket operator no one on my crew
liked, comes up and starts running his mouth about he would
do it this way! My friend said my head turned beet red and I
started poking my finger in this fellers chest, telling him the
manager asked us to do this tree and we don't need some
pus??y half azzed bucket operator that never put spurs on
telling us nothing. Things got pretty intense, for a few minutes
he never said a word,then he said the manager made me come
over so you would have a bucket and he would rather be on
his line. I said fine go but leave the bucket, he starts saying
I will shut up just let me stay! So I said ok but one more wrong
word and you will wear these spurs and climb this tree.
We get this tree down with out one problem except fear and
this yahoo was down the line pushing saplings and cutting and
was hollering help,help,he got it into the three phaze and was trying
to push it out! We went up there he is still hollering help,help, I
tell him to forget it the line just blowed!!!!!!!!!shesh he was a winner.