Black Walnut help please

[redfin]

We are building our house this year and I'm trying to bring the stair case in my mind to fruition.

What I want to build is a steel staircase with black walnut treads. Basically it will be a 6" square tube "backbone" with 4" square tube risers. On top of the riser tubing I want to use 3/8" plate to which the walnut will be lagged on top of.

Here's my question. I want the treads to be roughly 3" thick. I'm concerned even after I have them kiln dried they will split out. Is this somethinng I should be conncerned with? It has taken me almost a year to find a gentleman in our area that has the timber and the mill to slab these for me. My other option is to laminate 3/4" together then finish. This is new territory for me and I appreciate your help.

I have been into metal fab for awhile and that's where this idea came from. Blending the two.

 

[1ruralmailman]

i would think that with them being kiln dried you should be fine.that said,you will have to expect some loss just in the drying process as they will probably move alot.if it were me and i was to be doing this i think i would either drill my lag hole extra big,and use a washer.or make it elongated in the steel with the way the wood will move and JUST tighten them snug.that way as they want to move with the weather they should be able to do it.good luck and photos of it done are a requirement.

 

[redfin]

I hadn't thought about the movement of the wood. I was hoping to find a taper lag head. Thought Fastnal would be able to find something. That way, when looking from the underside of the stairs the bottom will be completely flush.

The wood expanding and contracting throws that idea right out the window.

 

[blades]

If you seal all 6 sides including the bolt holes the contraction expansion should be extremely minimal. It is when only a couple sides are sealed that problems develop. The material would need to be kiln dried to 8% initially. Then allowed to stabilize in your local, then sealed. A lot has to due with the way the wood is milled in the first place as to how stable it will be.

 

[redfin]

What do you mean, how its milled?

 

[mdavlee]

What do you mean, how its milled?

Quarter sawn or just cut boards.

 

[Dave Boyt]

Walnut is one of the most stable woods, so you've got that going for you. To clarify Mdavlee's comment, the quarter sawn wood is more stable, though this will not be an issue if it is kiln dried and sealed. Getting the wood kiln dried may be an issue, though. Wood that thick will take special drying, and most kiln operators won't make a special load for your stair treads. That alone may dictate that you go with laminated wood. The laminated wood will have less stress in any case.

 

[redfin]

Thanks for the replies. I'm sorry but what exactly do you mean quarter sawn? I have a call into a local kiln operator. What would need to be done differently?

Also the gentleman who has the logs is just a retired backyard small mill. He told me he wasn't sure what to charge me. What would be fair for what I need?

 

[jhall]

Quartersawn is a (slightly more difficult) way of milling so that the grain is as straight up and down across the end of the board as it can be.

 

[redfin]

I see. That's probably not feasible with the two logs he has.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Quartersawn is a (slightly more difficult) way of milling so that the grain is as straight up and down across the end of the board as it can be.

I'm going to disagree with the above illustrations a bit... Each way of the above milling has all three kinds of lumber coming out of them and you will get MORE "quarter sawn" lumber out of what you have labeled "rift".

SR

 

[jhall]

I'm going to disagree with the above illustrations a bit... Each way of the above milling has all three kinds of lumber coming out of them and you will get MORE "quarter sawn" lumber out of what you have labeled "rift".

SR

That illustration was just something googled real quick. I am not very familiar with rift sawn lumber, so I have no idea how accurate it is. The illustration for quartersawn was all I was after. I'm sure there are other ways to go about it, that is just the way I've always seen it done.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

It's the way folks do it, because there's less waste, but much of the lumber isn't true Q.sawn lumber.

What's labeled rift, is the real Q.sawn lumber...

SR

 

[woodchuck357]

Back when I was working at the family's saw mill, plain sawing and rift sawing were the same cut, just different names. Just keep running the saw thru the log without turning it. I know most folks don't agree, but that is the way all the saw people I knew referred to it. Quarter sawn refers to the method used to cut boards, not the way they look.
Most of the lumber we cut was quarter sawn, usually using the triple cut or alternate method in this diagram. We never used the radial method.
As I understood it the name came from first cutting the log into quarters, of course after the wide center boards were cut.
The triple cut method was mostly used because it meant less turning than the alternate method and basically resulted in the same board feet and the same quality. A few boards obviously wind up being the same as radial cut and these were usually set aside and sold as a lot mostly to furniture makers. We almost never used the method labeled common because the way our saw was set up holding the quarter was more difficult. There was more waste and more time was spent so we charged more if someone insisted that method be used when cutting their lumber. That led a few folks to feel the lumber cut that way was superior.

 

[Dave Boyt]

Jhall's image is incorrect. I checked the Knowledge Base of Woodweb.com, and here is Gene Wengert's explanation. If he says it, it must be so!

"Quarter sawn grain has the annual rings at an angle of 75 to 90 degrees to the face, while rift is 45 to 75 degrees." See more at: http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Quality_Issues_with.html#sthash.vAeYnaZq.dpuf

Here is an illustration. Note that, as you get near the center, you can have all three patterns in the same boards-- quarter sawn near the edge, rift sawn, and flat (plain) sawn near the middle. You don't want to use the wood near the center of the growth rings, because it will likely crack and cause the wood to warp. Any sawing pattern will, as Sawyer Rob says, yield some quarter sawn wood. There are certain ways the sawyer can maximize this. My suggestion is to not worry about quartersawing the walnut. Get it kiln dry, seal the surfaces, install, and enjoy!

 

[woodchuck357]

I would just cut the walnut, sticker and stack then air dry it a few years. Then plane it, finish all sides, and replace the stained soft wood treads I had been using while the walnut dried.

 

[redfin]

Wow that's quite an education you guys are givinng me. Thank you very much. I did get another lead on some 12/4 walnut today. I spoke with him and he is checking to see if he has enough at the correct depth we need. Best part is this lumber has already been kiln dried.

If he doesn't have enough then I will go back to the original fella and have him mill what we need.

What do you feel is the best product to seal/finish this walnut with? Looking for something as clear as possible to keep the tone of the wood natural.

 

[woodchuck357]

Oil based Polyurethane

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Just so you know, you will NEVER stop that wood from moving, no matter what finish you put on it, or how you apply it, but a good finish will slow the movement down...

SR

 

[redfin]

Oriiginally I had planned to countersink holes in the plate and try to find the tapered lags. I can't remember what that specific bolt head is called.

I am going to dato the size of the plate from the underside of the slabs. I'm trying to make the underside look as flush as possible.

Does anyone have any better ideas for attching the treads?