Black Walnut Leaner

[Petrified]

Does anyone know how well black walnut holds a hinge?

I have a 20" BH tree that has a solid 25 degree lean over a neighboring property with a horse corral. Almost all of the branches are on the lean side and the roots become more exposed opposite the lean every year. It's time that I take it down before it goes on it's own.

I would prefer not to climb it because of the unknown stability. I also don't have a good way to rig it because of the open corral. I have a backhoe that I can easily pull it with but would need to make a wide face cut and rely on a fairly elastic hinge. My fear is the hinge breaking before I get the tree past the lean.

Any other suggested methods would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Westboastfaller]

I posted an illustration and explanation of a cut called "Johnny hold me tigh" it's in the firewood sec under "Barberchair" page 10.

I personally don't know about the holding property's of Walnut.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

Does anyone know how well black walnut holds a hinge?

I have a 20" BH tree that has a solid 25 degree lean over a neighboring property with a horse corral. Almost all of the branches are on the lean side and the roots become more exposed opposite the lean every year. It's time that I take it down before it goes on it's own.

I would prefer not to climb it because of the unknown stability. I also don't have a good way to rig it because of the open corral. I have a backhoe that I can easily pull it with but would need to make a wide face cut and rely on a fairly elastic hinge. My fear is the hinge breaking before I get the tree past the lean.

Any other suggested methods would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Good thinking. No, walnut doesn't not have great hinge capability and just might snap. It also might be hollow. If you had a good pull 180 degrees opposite to the lean then you probably would be fine as long as the limbs don't make it twist.

What you are describing does not sound safe. If you could install some ropes to hold it while its coming over that helps.

 

[Marshy]

 

[Gypo Logger]

Should be a piece of cake. Brace the tree opposite the lean with a strap or cable. One end at least 12' above stump and the other end attached to the bucket of your hoe. Make the strap taught, but not overly tight.
Place your cuts in the usual manner of falling, then signal operator of hoe to slowly pull tree over, no jerking or yanking.

 

[Gypo Logger]

There was a couple things I left out in the name of safety.
Make sure the parking brake is set on the hoe, and make sure you dont make a dutchman.
A thinner hinge is safer than a thicker one when the hoe starts pulling.
If the tree sets back on the saw, dont be scared, just have the hoe pull gently enough to release your saw.
Make sure the hoe doesnt agressively rattle the tree when your underneath it, or a branch could take you out.
Its just a gentle thought out dance.

 

[benjo75]

Black Walnut around here is pretty brittle. Doesn't hold well. I definitely wouldn't pull with much of a side lean. Pulling opposite of the lean usually works if you have the power to pull. You need a thicker hinge in case something doesn't go right and it sets back. But a thicker hinge will break easier. The proper width hinge will be strongest and give the most. That depends on the tree. And if you stick a saw in it and it's hollow or bad then you're in a mess. I've done them like this before but I used 2 and 3 ropes in the top. One pulling the direction of fall and the others pulling from either side of the center pull. How far from the center pull again depends on the tree. And you better pull all 3 evenly, smoothly and exactly the same time and speed. If you don't get high enough in the tree you can pull it off the stump and pull the butt out from under the top. Then it falls to the lean. Be sure the ropes are high enough and around a sturdy enough part of the tree. If you use just one rope and its away from the center of the trunk, meaning out on a limb, it can torque the tree off the stump.

 

[Marshy]

This video might help. Pay particular attention to the direction his line is relative to the lean and where he wants it to go.

 

[ksvanbrunt]

If in doubt, crane it out!

 

[Petrified]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. Here's a pic that shows what I'm dealing with. It leans and curls pretty hard. The curl is so severe that all of the branches are past the stump. Making it worse is that the trunk splits into two primary branches that are about 12 and 18". The rest of the Walnuts on the property are dead straight poles- of course.

 

[Marshy]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. Here's a pic that shows what I'm dealing with. It leans and curls pretty hard. The curl is so severe that all of the branches are past the stump. Making it worse is that the trunk splits into two primary branches that are about 12 and 18". The rest of the Walnuts on the property are dead straight poles- of course.

Oh man, that's tough. It might be easier to dismantle a section of the fence between two posts and park it between them. With a top like that its not going to land flat, it will likely bounce or roll when it hits. You might consider doing some climbing and get that limb weight off. IDK, your really have a long ways to get that trunk over to your side of the fence and if your hinge fails and the but comes off the stump its going on the fence. You really have a long way to move it just to get it vertical. Its dicey but could be done, just my $0.02

 

[benjo75]

That's more lean than I would try on Walnut. That would be bad enough if it was Pine. I would either top it out or remove a section of fence. Falling it might work but not good enough odds for me. It would take a very wide notch. Since I do this for a living, I couldn't accept those odds. My work has to be perfect every time. 99.9% isn't good enough odds for my work. If I couldn't get the bucket to it I would climb it and piece it out.

 

[Jed1124]

That's more lean than I would try on Walnut. That would be bad enough if it was Pine. I would either top it out or remove a section of fence. Falling it might work but not good enough odds for me. It would take a very wide notch. Since I do this for a living, I couldn't accept those odds. My work has to be perfect every time. 99.9% isn't good enough odds for my work. If I couldn't get the bucket to it I would climb it and piece it out.

+1

 

[Petrified]

That's why I posted this here. When the guys who do it everyday say things like "Oh man, that's tough" it confirms that it's going to take a well thought out plan.

I'm experienced and well versed but don't do this every day. I've maintained two personal properties for 20 years that are in forestry totaling almost 40 acres. I have The right equipment, gear and climb SRT. I'm cautious, do my homework and I've dealt with countless dangerous trees but rarely do I have to deal with obstacles that I don't own.

The neighbor inheritated the property and brought her horses which is cool. I was very close with her mother who would have let me do anything on their property. The daughter isn't exactly trusting and most likely would have a problem with it. I'm certain she wouldn't let me remove a section of the fence. (Actually, the fence is about 2 years old and I really wish she would have let me know that it was coming as I would have dropped it immediately!!!!)

I'm considering chaining it just below the big fork and pulling on it with a dozer. I could always expose the roots on the lean side and cut them with the slack out of the chain before pulling. The ground is wet enough right now to do it. Seems safer relying on the stumps connection with the ground over a hinge. Thoughts on that?

This angle shows how far over the fence it is. Again, greatly appreciate everyone's insight.

 

[greengreer]

If you cant take some fence down, climb it and blow some tops out then rig the wood down. I wouldn't try to pull that anywhere except dead against the lean.
Trying to uproot it with a dozer is pretty risky and even if it does work is gonna mess up the fence with the root ball.
Or you could get a crane in there. If it was my bid I would tell them the cheapest and safest way is to remove some of the fence. Other than that it's getting expensive quick. If they don't wanna mess with the fence and cant swallow an expensive bill, let someone else screw it up.

 

[Woody912]

Does anyone know how well black walnut holds a hinge?

I have a 20" BH tree that has a solid 25 degree lean over a neighboring property with a horse corral. Almost all of the branches are on the lean side and the roots become more exposed opposite the lean every year. It's time that I take it down before it goes on it's own.

I would prefer not to climb it because of the unknown stability. I also don't have a good way to rig it because of the open corral. I have a backhoe that I can easily pull it with but would need to make a wide face cut and rely on a fairly elastic hinge. My fear is the hinge breaking before I get the tree past the lean.

Any other suggested methods would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

I think I would point out to the neighbor that falling trees are an act of God for which you are not responsible but if she could be flexible with the fence you could work something out. If I were to pull and cut it I think I would want to consider some type of 2 pt attachment of both limbs to keep from twisting, somethink like a "Y"

 

[benjo75]

Do it the right way. Whatever that happens to be for you. If you screw it up, it's your mess to make right. If I run across one that's going to be a problem, I tell them what I have to do to do it right. If they don't want that then I leave it. Clean it up when it falls and tell them you offered to do it right.

 

[BC WetCoast]

You said you can climb. Just climb into the crotch, then cut and toss the lower branches. Put a rope up higher in the taller stem, notch it and pull it back away from the fence. Take small pieces and clean it back to the junction and the fall it parallel to the fence. 1/2 hour work even for an old fart like me.

A dozer???? Definitely overthinking this.

 

[treebilly]

Since horses are sensitive to walnut I would think she would be more than happy to keep them in another pasture or the barn for a day to take out a section of fence and drop it. If not I'd wait for nature to take its course. Has she mentioned the tree posing a threat? If so you might need to worry. There are certain steps one needs to follow but when done properly it's not considered an act of God anymore and considered negligence on the owners behalf. I believe you are doing the right thing but if she can't work with you on it, you might want to farm it out.

 

[Zale]

I would climb it. Very basic removal.