ArboristSite.com Sponsors
 
 


Chain Sharpening Angles

Discussion in 'Chainsaw' started by WoodTick007, Dec 10, 2005.

  1. WoodTick007

    WoodTick007 AboristSite Guru

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    694
    Likes Received:
    101
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    I an currently sharpening with a Tecomec grinder and always use the angles reccommended by the chain manufacturer. Normally I grind all my chains 10-25-60. Are there better angles to use that will make the chain cut faster? Stay sharp longer?
     
  2. Kneejerk Bombas

    Kneejerk Bombas Tree Freak

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2001
    Messages:
    25,181
    Likes Received:
    2,183
    Location:
    My mom's basement, in Madison, Wisconsin.
    In general, steeper angles cut faster, blunter angles stay sharp longer.
     
  3. Chainsaw Master

    Chainsaw Master ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Michigan
    Depends on the wood you are cutting. I always sharpen by hand, and if I am cutting cedar I put more angle on the top, and file deeper into the gullet, say 10-40-45. For froozen hardwood I would use 10-25-70. essentially you can have a sharper cutting edge on softwood, while for hardwood you need a blunter edge. A chain filed for hardwood cuts softwood ok, but if its filed for softwood it screams through it. A chain sharpened for softwood, cutting hardwood will just get dull quickly, the edge being too fine, peens over. Hhmmmmm I hope this makes sense.............
     
  4. Crofter

    Crofter Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2002
    Messages:
    4,993
    Likes Received:
    348
    Location:
    Northern Ontario
    woodtick, you might try going a little closer to 45 degrees with the angle you set on the grinder arm. I have that grinder. This controlls the relative sharper / blunter of the top plate cuttinng edge. This will do the same as lowering a file on the tooth. The top plate mainly splits fibre and not severs it so it is not so challenged as the side plate. This may get you slightly faster cutting without much loss of stay sharp. Sorry, but If you really want a lot faster you will have to go to square ground / filed, but that is a lot more fooferah!
     
  5. Lakeside53

    Lakeside53 Stihl Wrenching

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2004
    Messages:
    24,817
    Likes Received:
    1,643
    Location:
    Woodinville, WA
    It depends on the chain.... Unless you know your chain you need to use a side guage to judge the results for hook angle, and not go so much on the grinder vertical angles. The shape of your grinding wheel will greatly affect the outcome so dress it often and accurately


    For Stihl chain, its all 0, 30, then 60 to 80 (vertical) depending on the type. Whether you use 25 or 30 it doesn't really make much difference, but hook angle will matter greatly for staying sharp, particularly on Chisel chain.

    In our shop we grind (and sharpen by hand) all chain to the same angles as stihl chain and nobody ever complains.
     
  6. JeffHK454

    JeffHK454 AboristSite Guru

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    703
    Likes Received:
    191
    Location:
    Cincinnati
    Sorry to hijack this thread and drag it off track.

    WoodTick007 do you think the Tecomec grinder is as good as the 511A ? Or is the Oregon grinder worth the extra $120?

    Thanks, Jeff
     
  7. bwalker

    bwalker Resident Hack Sawbuilder Exposer

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    6,772
    Likes Received:
    165
    Location:
    UP, Michigan
    The Tecomec and the Oregon are the same grinder I believe.
    Back to grinding. I recently got my first grinder and have been fooling around with it a bit. the problem I am running into is I cant get the working crober sharp enough for some reason. The top plate and side plate are both great, but the working cornewr isnt as sharp as my hand filed. Another thing with grinding is thats its slower for me unless the chain is reall fooked up. I can sharpen a 20" loop twice as fast as grinding using a hand file and oregon roller guide. maybe my technique sucks?
     
  8. jokers

    jokers Banned

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    3,868
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    New Haven, NY
    That`s true. Tecomec, Efco, Oregon, and the Windsors that I have seen are all the same grinder.
    Ben, I assuming that you are grinding from the outside in vs filing from the inside out? If not, you should be. A finer stone like a Borazon or CBN will also make a cleaner, crisper cut. You might also experiment with the profile of the stone and how deep you go toward the gullet. I do agree that a filed chain is ultimately sharper.

    You should also just barely contact the tooth so that you don`t put too much heat into it. It will probably take several quick passes around both sides of the chain to fully sharpen it.

    I do all the grinding on one side until I`m satisfied then back off the screw on the chain pawl and set up to grind the other side. When I feel that I should be close to equal from one side to the other, I remove the chain from the vise and fold it over in several places so that the teeth are back to back and I compare length this way instead of relying on the grinder to produce symmetry

    Russ
     
  9. Patrick62

    Patrick62 Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,776
    Likes Received:
    220
    Location:
    Colorado
    It works for me.

    Oregon 511, is probably the same basic machine as Tecomec, others.

    Keep playing with the angles until you find something you like.

    If you are interested, I have a diagram on how to reverse the motor for grinding the other set of cutters. I can email it to ya :sword:

    -Pat
     
  10. TimberPig

    TimberPig AboristSite Guru

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    859
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    BC
    Tecomec builds the 511A Oregon, but they make more grinders than that as well. Just make sure that the Tecomec model you are looking at is the same grinder as the 511A, as they do make smaller grinders that are not the same, and are less capable. The Jolly and Super Jolly are the same grinder with the difference between the two being the hydraulic chain clamping. The Midi Jolly and Baby Jolly are their lesser grinders.

    Here is some more info on the Tecomec line http://www.tiltonequipment.com/Tecomec/Tilton_Tecomec_chain_grinder_TL150_page.html
     
  11. Gypo Logger

    Gypo Logger Tree Freak

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2001
    Messages:
    11,208
    Likes Received:
    1,160
    Location:
    Yukon Territory
    How the stone is dressed as well as how often and with what carborundum stone is the important part.
    Get a good dressing stone from a tool and die maker. Also dress one side of the wheel round as this it the only side that touches the tooth. Also dress the bottom of the wheel flat so you have a nice flat gullet.
    Now, with a nicely dressed wheel, see how little you can take off, not how much. A little side pressure is what does it. It's totaly sacreligious to burn cutters. I lay my grinder over at 60 degrees I think, but experiment with angles and dress often.
    John
     
  12. WoodTick007

    WoodTick007 AboristSite Guru

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    694
    Likes Received:
    101
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Diamond Grinding wheels

    Has anyone ever used the Diamond grinding wheels? I see them for about $100.

    This plated CBN (Borazon) wheel is used to sharpen saw chain on the Speed Sharp, Effco, Model 7700 saw chain grinders, or other grinders capable of receiving wheels with the following specifications.
    The wheel measures 5-3/4” diameter, it has a 7/8” arbor hole and is 3/16” thick. The maximum R.P.M this wheel is rated for is 7250.
    CBN wheels are long lasting wheels for sharpening steel saw chain that will not need reshaping and possesses the long lasting attributes and precision grinding qualities of a diamond wheel.

    Thoughts?
     
  13. Crofter

    Crofter Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2002
    Messages:
    4,993
    Likes Received:
    348
    Location:
    Northern Ontario
    03-08-2003, 11:04 AM #54
    G-MAN
    Member

    Join Date: Feb 2003
    Location: SEVERN, MARYLAND
    Posts: 48
    G-MAN is off the scale

    As an average I would say the I sharpen 2000+ chains a year. One borzon wheel lasts about 3 months, and I can sharpen 3 to four chains in the same amount of time as one chain with the stone.
    I hate sharpening chains, if I had to use a stone again I would quit doing it. My advise is try one! I get my wheels from a company called Triatic. I will post the phone number for those who are interested.
    I'm not to knowledgable on the square ground chain, so I couldn't speak intelligently about it's relation with the borzon wheels.
    __________________
    Gambrills Equipment Co., Inc.
    STIHL Gold certified technician
     
  14. Lakeside53

    Lakeside53 Stihl Wrenching

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2004
    Messages:
    24,817
    Likes Received:
    1,643
    Location:
    Woodinville, WA

    I put one one a few weeks ago... Mine was closer to $300, but I'm "evaluating" it :) Did sharpen a 36 inch .404 carbide chain, and it did a nice job. I've only run a dozen or so "ordinary" chains though it to date. Takes some getting used to - In comparison to stone wheels, it throws a lot less sparks and they are finer, so it's really easy to take off too much metal. Does make a nice cut and it's nice to not have to dress the wheel for shape. You do have to touch it with a ceramic cleaner stone to unload the wheel from time to time. I figure that if I set it up with a coolant (messy), the finish would be as good as a factory (Stihl) grind.
     
  15. hydro2

    hydro2 ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    East Brady PA

    I also just bought a Tecomec grinder and am using the angles of 25 and 60, but I am not sure about the 10. Is that 10 degrees on the base of the unit? I can't get my chains all that sharp. They are sharp, but could be sharper Also, center the chain in the clamp can kind of be a pain, so that the cutter on the left and right side remain the same lengh after grinding. I usually end up adjusting the stop pawl when proceding to grind the left hand cutter and grinding the right.

    Any ideas?
    Thanks Mark
     
  16. willowrun23

    willowrun23 ArboristSite Lurker

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2013
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Michigan
    Tecomeck FL 136

    I have had this unit since 1999 and it has always been right on the money, the thing that made it even better is the brazon wheel, if you get even a slight bur it flips off with your thumb.
     
  17. Gologit

    Gologit Mostly retired

    Joined:
    May 19, 2005
    Messages:
    15,161
    Likes Received:
    6,190
    Location:
    In the Redwoods.
    You're replying to a thread from 2005.
     
  18. Fish

    Fish Account Hold

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Messages:
    13,974
    Likes Received:
    1,262
    Location:
    Loretto/Manton Ky.
    At least someone uses the search feature!
     
  19. Termite

    Termite Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,106
    Likes Received:
    386
    Location:
    milltown indiana
    Until I looked at the date I thought Lakeside had returned !!!
     
  20. Fish

    Fish Account Hold

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Messages:
    13,974
    Likes Received:
    1,262
    Location:
    Loretto/Manton Ky.
    He has brother........ Just paypal him some cabbage.....
     

Share This Page