John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
> > > From: "Brown, Ian
> > >
> > > Mr. J
> > > I echo your thoughts on the issues with the posted Champion Tree
> list.
> > > When I started my appointment at the beginning of the summer the
> > > deficiencies of the list format became very apparent. One of the
> > > trees in Stevens Point I had previous knowledge of, and found that
> > > tree to be listed 5 separate times. Additionally, many of the
> > > trees
>
> > > had incomplete records (i.e. missing contact information,
> > > measurements, vague location). The first thing I did was to
> > > develop
>
> > > a
> >
> > > new Champion Tree database that would help to mitigate repeat
> > > records of the same tree. I also set it up to mandate having a
> > > complete nomination form so whoever takes over the program
> > > following
>
> > > me will not have the same set of issues. I reorganized the paper
> > > nomination form and have also asked for some new information (i.e.
> > > GPS coordinates, tree condition, trunk character, owner
permission).
>
> > > This
> >
> > > is the link for the form
> > > (http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/forestry/UF/champion/). The most
> > > significant change in my opinion will be the requirement of GPS
> > > coordinates because that will precisely specify the location for
> > > each tree. Coordinates can easily be entered into a GPS unit for
> > > someone trying to relocate a tree and/or integrated into a GIS
> > > layer
>
> > > for representing all champion tree locations around the state. It
> > > is a readily available technology that the program is now taking
> > > advantage
> > of.
> > >
> > > To aid in taking more accurate measurements, I have purchased new
> > > equipment for the program. I am putting together field kits that
> > > will
> >
> > > be held at each regional urban forestry office. These kits are
> > > designed to allow the Champion Tree inspectors to have access to
> > > very accurate equipment without having to buy it themselves. Each
> > > kit includes a GPS unit, laser hypsometer and tape measure. The
> > > laser hypsometer is very easy to use and is accurate to +- 1 foot
> > > at
>
> > > 100 yards. I believe that I have provided the means to take
> > > accurate tree
> >
> > > measurements and location information, enabling the tree to be
> > > monitored over time. The new standards for the Wisconsin Champion
> > > Tree publication also mimic the National Big Tree Registry
> > > standards
>
> > > in that a tree must be measured within the last 10 years to be
> > eligible for publication.
> > >
> > > I understand that there have been shortcomings in the past. It is
> > > my job to get the program up and running again. I am in the
> > > process
>
> > > of developing a new volunteer inspector network to aid in the
> > > updating of
> >
> > > the current database. This past weekend I had my first inspector
> > > training workshop. I plan on holding more as interest grows. I
> > > will also be making a presentation for the Champion Tree program
> > > at the WAA/DNR annual conference this weekend. This a re-release
> > > of the program because I have made some changes and public
> > > awareness has faded over the years. You should also know that my
> > > position is a new temporary appointment with a focus on getting
> > > the program running
> > again.
> > > The future goal is to have the program run itself, primarily by
> > > volunteers (utilizing tools like the forum) with minimal input
> > > from the DNR. The DNR would basically serve in an administrative
> > > role and work with regional volunteer coordinators around the
> > > state to keep the
> >
> > > program running. The DNR would also publish a biennial print copy
> > > of the Champion Tree list that would be available to anyone. I'm
> > > sorry that you have had a poor experience with the Wisconsin
> > > Champion Tree program in the past. I can assure you that we are
> > > moving forward to provide the best possible service with the
> available technology.
> > > Thank you for your interest and concern. We are doing our best to
> > > address the past issues and carry forward into the future.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Ian Brown
> > > Champion Tree Program Coordinator
----
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: paul
> >
> > Ian,
> >
> > My understanding is most if not all laser hypsometers on the market
> > have a height mode that uses three measurements:
> > one "shot" to the trunk for distance and angle measurements to the
> > top
>
> > and bottom. This is unacceptable on spreading hardwoods and leaning
> > trees. If the users take advantage of the dV or vertical component
> > mode, there is no dependency on the distance to the trunk being in
> > the
>
> > same vertical line as the top and bottom of the tree. Instead, it
> > gives the true vertical height to the points being measured. It
> > creates the sum of the sine x range products with minimum error
> > since there is no dependencies of the two critical points on a third
> > otherwise more critical point. When using a laser hypsometer,
> > unless it is using the sine method, the built in height mode should
> > be avoided. If not, error rates exceed 20% are possible. Which
> > method are you training for height measurements?
> >
> > My method is being used by other state champion tree program
> > coordinators: Robert Van Pelt of Washington (had cleaned up the
> > Wisconsin records during his college years at UW-Madison), Will Fell
> > of Georgia, Scott Wade of Pennsylvania, and formerly by the now
> > deceased Colby Rucker of Maryland. They are discouraging the three
> > point method and any method that doesn't exclusively use vertical
> > components for the height. Robert Van Pelt was on the team that
> > recently confirmed the new tallest tree in the world in California
> > and
>
> > used the same method with his Laser Tech unit. There may also be
> > others. I can provide email addresses for them if you would like to
> discuss it with them.
---
> >
> > From: "Brown, Ian
> >
> > Paul,
> > The laser hypsometers I have use the 3 shot method. However, I have
> > been doing and teaching to not use the "apparent" top of the tree
> > (where the crown touches the sky). Measurements are taken shooting
> > through the crown to find the top of the tree rather than the crown
> > arching toward the measurer. These measurement techniques have been
> > supported by other research seeking the true vertical height. The
> > website that I have been directed to in the past illustrates
> > measurement techniques
> > (http://www.nativetreesociety.org/measure/tree_measuring_guidelines.htm) These are the same techniques I have used.
> > Cross-triangulation is encouraged when possible. I'm open to
> > discussing my methods with other coordinators as any scientific
methods should be discussed.
> > Ian
> > >
> > > Mr. J
> > > I echo your thoughts on the issues with the posted Champion Tree
> list.
> > > When I started my appointment at the beginning of the summer the
> > > deficiencies of the list format became very apparent. One of the
> > > trees in Stevens Point I had previous knowledge of, and found that
> > > tree to be listed 5 separate times. Additionally, many of the
> > > trees
>
> > > had incomplete records (i.e. missing contact information,
> > > measurements, vague location). The first thing I did was to
> > > develop
>
> > > a
> >
> > > new Champion Tree database that would help to mitigate repeat
> > > records of the same tree. I also set it up to mandate having a
> > > complete nomination form so whoever takes over the program
> > > following
>
> > > me will not have the same set of issues. I reorganized the paper
> > > nomination form and have also asked for some new information (i.e.
> > > GPS coordinates, tree condition, trunk character, owner
permission).
>
> > > This
> >
> > > is the link for the form
> > > (http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/forestry/UF/champion/). The most
> > > significant change in my opinion will be the requirement of GPS
> > > coordinates because that will precisely specify the location for
> > > each tree. Coordinates can easily be entered into a GPS unit for
> > > someone trying to relocate a tree and/or integrated into a GIS
> > > layer
>
> > > for representing all champion tree locations around the state. It
> > > is a readily available technology that the program is now taking
> > > advantage
> > of.
> > >
> > > To aid in taking more accurate measurements, I have purchased new
> > > equipment for the program. I am putting together field kits that
> > > will
> >
> > > be held at each regional urban forestry office. These kits are
> > > designed to allow the Champion Tree inspectors to have access to
> > > very accurate equipment without having to buy it themselves. Each
> > > kit includes a GPS unit, laser hypsometer and tape measure. The
> > > laser hypsometer is very easy to use and is accurate to +- 1 foot
> > > at
>
> > > 100 yards. I believe that I have provided the means to take
> > > accurate tree
> >
> > > measurements and location information, enabling the tree to be
> > > monitored over time. The new standards for the Wisconsin Champion
> > > Tree publication also mimic the National Big Tree Registry
> > > standards
>
> > > in that a tree must be measured within the last 10 years to be
> > eligible for publication.
> > >
> > > I understand that there have been shortcomings in the past. It is
> > > my job to get the program up and running again. I am in the
> > > process
>
> > > of developing a new volunteer inspector network to aid in the
> > > updating of
> >
> > > the current database. This past weekend I had my first inspector
> > > training workshop. I plan on holding more as interest grows. I
> > > will also be making a presentation for the Champion Tree program
> > > at the WAA/DNR annual conference this weekend. This a re-release
> > > of the program because I have made some changes and public
> > > awareness has faded over the years. You should also know that my
> > > position is a new temporary appointment with a focus on getting
> > > the program running
> > again.
> > > The future goal is to have the program run itself, primarily by
> > > volunteers (utilizing tools like the forum) with minimal input
> > > from the DNR. The DNR would basically serve in an administrative
> > > role and work with regional volunteer coordinators around the
> > > state to keep the
> >
> > > program running. The DNR would also publish a biennial print copy
> > > of the Champion Tree list that would be available to anyone. I'm
> > > sorry that you have had a poor experience with the Wisconsin
> > > Champion Tree program in the past. I can assure you that we are
> > > moving forward to provide the best possible service with the
> available technology.
> > > Thank you for your interest and concern. We are doing our best to
> > > address the past issues and carry forward into the future.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Ian Brown
> > > Champion Tree Program Coordinator
----
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: paul
> >
> > Ian,
> >
> > My understanding is most if not all laser hypsometers on the market
> > have a height mode that uses three measurements:
> > one "shot" to the trunk for distance and angle measurements to the
> > top
>
> > and bottom. This is unacceptable on spreading hardwoods and leaning
> > trees. If the users take advantage of the dV or vertical component
> > mode, there is no dependency on the distance to the trunk being in
> > the
>
> > same vertical line as the top and bottom of the tree. Instead, it
> > gives the true vertical height to the points being measured. It
> > creates the sum of the sine x range products with minimum error
> > since there is no dependencies of the two critical points on a third
> > otherwise more critical point. When using a laser hypsometer,
> > unless it is using the sine method, the built in height mode should
> > be avoided. If not, error rates exceed 20% are possible. Which
> > method are you training for height measurements?
> >
> > My method is being used by other state champion tree program
> > coordinators: Robert Van Pelt of Washington (had cleaned up the
> > Wisconsin records during his college years at UW-Madison), Will Fell
> > of Georgia, Scott Wade of Pennsylvania, and formerly by the now
> > deceased Colby Rucker of Maryland. They are discouraging the three
> > point method and any method that doesn't exclusively use vertical
> > components for the height. Robert Van Pelt was on the team that
> > recently confirmed the new tallest tree in the world in California
> > and
>
> > used the same method with his Laser Tech unit. There may also be
> > others. I can provide email addresses for them if you would like to
> discuss it with them.
---
> >
> > From: "Brown, Ian
> >
> > Paul,
> > The laser hypsometers I have use the 3 shot method. However, I have
> > been doing and teaching to not use the "apparent" top of the tree
> > (where the crown touches the sky). Measurements are taken shooting
> > through the crown to find the top of the tree rather than the crown
> > arching toward the measurer. These measurement techniques have been
> > supported by other research seeking the true vertical height. The
> > website that I have been directed to in the past illustrates
> > measurement techniques
> > (http://www.nativetreesociety.org/measure/tree_measuring_guidelines.htm) These are the same techniques I have used.
> > Cross-triangulation is encouraged when possible. I'm open to
> > discussing my methods with other coordinators as any scientific
methods should be discussed.
> > Ian