Contract fellerbuncher southeast USA

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Bluedog

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Southwest VA
I am looking for some numbers. . . .

I am in a unique position to acquire a CAT 573c wheeled fellerbuncher. I will be cutting primarily for the logging company I currently work for but would like to do some contract cutting.

I operate in northwestern NC, can do thinning, select cut and clearcut, also any Hand falling on the slopes or big hardwood.

I am trying to sort out what a per ton rate would be to charge for my services, obviously per ton for the bunched and per day for hand falling are common in this area.

Anybody contract with a buncher that could shed some light?

SOUTHEAST USA, Not northwest, your numbers are waaaaaaaay different.

Thanks
 
I would think you would want to get 20 bucks a cord for that. Depending on the wood that would be 8 bucks a ton? Then again if you are just cutting tree length maybe less. You would be better off cutting your own wood. Even subbing for a mill cut/skid vs. subbing cut for a logger.
 
If you don't even know the going rate for bunching or hand felling chances are there's a lot more you don't know that's going to cost you money. I'm sure you're a good operator, but you'd better learn the business end of things before buying equipment. If owning that machine was a better than break even proposition your boss wouldn't sub the work out.
 
If you don't even know the going rate for bunching or hand felling chances are there's a lot more you don't know that's going to cost you money. I'm sure you're a good operator, but you'd better learn the business end of things before buying equipment. If owning that machine was a better than break even proposition your boss wouldn't sub the work out.

It's a unique situation in that the owner(s) of the company I work for are looking to retire in the next 3 years and we are coming up with ways for me to buy in to the company with one or 2 pieces of equipment before taking over the whole thing, I would essentially be working for the same company, except I would own the cutter and on paper appear as a sub contractor as a way to build business credit and establish an insurance mod etc, so I won't be swamped with high interest, high insurance rates/mod and in need of personal collateral when I acquire the company, it's easier for a company to buy a company than for an individual to buy a company.

I was just looking for input from anyone who does sub contract with a wheeled buncher for a living, not looking for logging business advice, I am well aware of the business end of things, but being as it appears a contract buncher is a rarity as I suspected, I don't believe I am going to find any useful info.
 
If you are " well aware" of the business end of things you know what the operating expenses, ins, maint cost, fuel, and average monthly repairs are on that machine. Sence you work for the co. you know average production for that machine. Add your monthly payment, plus your salary to those expenses and divide by the average monthly production for that machine. That's your break even figure. Now add a set aside for replacement of that machine when you wear it out. Not that hard for someone who's well aware of the business end of things.
 
Why not do a set hourly rate? Normally bunches are around 150 175 for contract cutting, then a set rate for hand falling say around 80 from memory maybe more depending on insurance.

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Why not do a set hourly rate? Normally bunches are around 150 175 for contract cutting, then a set rate for hand falling say around 80 from memory maybe more depending on insurance.

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Are you saying $80 per hr for hand felling??? No wonder the rest of the world pays on production.
 
If you're paying your own insurance ect.

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Who do you personally know who earns that felling? I've never met anybody who got paid hourly, only piece rate, and never met a soul who earned half that consistantly on a weekly basis.
 
Who do you personally know who earns that felling? I've never met anybody who got paid hourly, only piece rate, and never met a soul who earned half that consistantly on a weekly basis.
I know more then a few guys out here in the PNW that make that and do nothing but cut everyday part of the reason is ground they've only been on steep ground anymore.

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Who do you personally know who earns that felling? I've never met anybody who got paid hourly, only piece rate, and never met a soul who earned half that consistantly on a weekly basis.

You need to pay a visit to our side of the hill. There are guys out here who make pretty good money. I've never worked by the hour either but I've day waged and it amounts to about the same thing.
If you're working on steep ground, helicopter or yarder, and by steep I mean cow face steep, it takes that kind of money to get and keep competent help.
Being able to fall big timber without busting it up is close to being an art.
80 bucks an hour isn't a huge wage when a guy is running his own numbers. By the time a faller pays all of his own expenses, insurance and taxes, and provides for his own transportation and lodging there isn't a lot left.
Couple that with the fact that since everything possible is cut with a fell-buncher there isn't nearly as much steady work for a faller as there used to be. Damn little of it sometimes.
 
The last two posts make sense. Your just talking about an entirely different situation than the op. We all pay our own taxes, ins, etc. Its just that Va.( the whole area east of the pacific coast for that matter) is a lot different than your talking about. He's talking about pine or mixed hardwood on flat ground that's just too big for an east coast size head. He's not talking about food and lodging, transportation to remote sites and all that goes with your area. You also alluded to the fact there's not much steady work. 6 days, 50 weeks, home every nite around here. Not many people willing to pay $650 a day for a man with a saw and a gas can under those conditions.
 
The last two posts make sense. Your just talking about an entirely different situation than the op. We all pay our own taxes, ins, etc. Its just that Va.( the whole area east of the pacific coast for that matter) is a lot different than your talking about. He's talking about pine or mixed hardwood on flat ground that's just too big for an east coast size head. He's not talking about food and lodging, transportation to remote sites and all that goes with your area. You also alluded to the fact there's not much steady work. 6 days, 50 weeks, home every nite around here. Not many people willing to pay $650 a day for a man with a saw and a gas can under those conditions.
You have to remember what you guys use head size wise is what I run for thinning young Doug Fir stands which are close to pine for time to cut as well limb. If it was me out there I'd be looking at cut a machine that can do everything but load and yard like a logmax 7000 fixed head that'd be a good way to go less over head.

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Not that it matters much. The op has is mind made up he knows better and won't be coming back. 40 bucks per mbf for hand falling here is not unusual and the good ones will make more. Especially in high dollar hardwood. And anyone worth a damn will fall and buck 2mbf per hour. Falling and topping you'll get less per mbf but it will amount to more in the long run. I'd want at least $80 per hour to hand cut for someone.
 
So I've kept out of this fer awhile, cause I know next to nothing about mechanical falling, other then its fast and taking jobs from folks...

That said.

What I've always been told and it seems to work, is a days wages for you and a days wages for the machine

In other words if you want to bring home $30 an hour say, then charge $60

but $30 doesn't amount to much if you start thinking about vacations, health care, taxes, insurance, fuel... ****ing fuel... so go ahead and tack on another $30 to the other two $30 and yer up to about $90 an hour just to keep the lights on. In other words $30 to you $30 to the machine and $30 to grow the business/cover woopsies.

This all making sense? read it twice...

Now if you want to get ahead a little, and we all do, tack on some percentage to that $90, say roughly 10% and yer up to around $100 an hour.

This all don't make much sense when it comes to being paid by production, but the math is pretty simple, figure how many hours you intend to work in a day, and add 2 (yer the boss now so get used to 12-14 hour days) make a guess at how much production you think you can get done, and simple divide yer days wages by estimated tonnage

for example 12 hrs @ 100 per hour divided by a complete guess of 50 tons ends up being $24 per ton, which honestly seems high, but I haven't a clue how much you can put down in a day with a wheeled buncher... so make yer own numbers.

Above all, keep an eye on yer costs, understand where the money is going and why, if yer not making money then either raise yer rates or find the holes in yer pockets.

Buying Iron is addictive, very addictive, only buy what you need and don't get suckered into some BS by some **** salesman in a nice suit... they are trying to take your money, and they are very good at it.

Anyhow... hope this helps.. also get good at wrenching, and always be on the look out for cheap parts houses, the dealers have all sorts of dicks in suits ready to swindle you out of money and largely NAPA can cross reference part numbers for a discounted part... same parts usually at 1/4 the prices...
 
Not that it matters much. The op has is mind made up he knows better and won't be coming back. 40 bucks per mbf for hand falling here is not unusual and the good ones will make more. Especially in high dollar hardwood. And anyone worth a damn will fall and buck 2mbf per hour. Falling and topping you'll get less per mbf but it will amount to more in the long run. I'd want at least $80 per hour to hand cut for someone.

$40 per thousand is about right, maybe even a few bucks low, but I've never seen a man cut and buck 15,000bf per day, day after day. Never mind throwing in a 3ft slash. At least not in New England. What's the per tree average you're referring to?
 
Your average hardwood tree is 1,000bf? Where is that location? A good job around here is 250.
Damn glad I don't work where you are no wonder they don't pay back there sounds like it should all be cut with a machine.

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