Custom Bar. Anyone ever try making their own chainsaw bar?

[srcarr52]

Chain bar uses stellite to weld on the rails to make them harder and then re grind the rails and groove.

Most hardnose bars have been hardfaced with Stellite Alloy 6 and then ground.

I do the same on sprocket nose bars in need of repair around the tip area but not for the whole bar. To build up 1/8" for 1" of both rails it will take about 1" of 3/32 welding rod. To weld both rails back from the tip 6" it takes about 15 minutes of delicate tig time and 30 minutes of grinding back to size. 1lb of Alloy 6 3/32x36" welding rod cost about $72 which is about 10 welding rods if I remember correctly. So if I have to weld more than 6" of rail on both sides I opt for buying a new bar unless it's a really expensive bar. But HRC 40-45 as welded which is plenty good to dull even the best of files. From my testing it's only slightly harder than a Cannon bar which are too hard to true the rails with a file.

Referring to the Cannon website their process is:
Rough in major shape with laser table.
Heat treat whole bar.
Straighten and surface grind.
Machine bar and tip mount (possible rough in of bar groove?)
Flame harden rails only.
Grind rail groove to within 0.002 (much tighter rail groove than most bar manufactures, for 63 gauge the rail groove will be 0.064" where Oregon or GB will be 0.066-68" and not always in the center of the bar).
Stress relieve (process unknown).

Super hardened edges with softer core allow for flex without shattering, it's the Samurai sword of the chainsaw world.

 

[Kicker_92]

Custom size bars are not complex to make, it's making them last that is the hard part.

The above post is correct about the Cannon process, lots of specialized equipment and experiance. Thats what make them the "best bar, bar none".

With hardened rails, the groove can still be re-ground if needed to clean up the rails. It takes a lot of wear, or lack of oil to damage those rails though...

 

[BobL]

But HRC 40-45 as welded which is plenty good to dull even the best of files..

HRC scales are poorly understood, reported and even harder to measure.
Most files can remove some metal from surfaces that have been hardened up to about HRC55 so bar rails must be hardened to about this hardness
Wood cutting hand saws and chisels are usually hardened to around HRC 50 - 52
HRC40-45 is cheap axe hardness
Files themselves can be anywhere from RC 64 to RC67+

When I measured the RC hardness of different chains, although there was not much in it I found that stihl chain had the softest chrome plating, Oregon was a bit harder and Carlton was the hardest.
In terms of the steel used in the cutter, Oregon was the hardest, then Carlton and then Stihl.
Of course hardness is not the only property affecting wear. While toughness and hardness are related it is possible for a slightly softer material to resist abrasion better than a harder one.

 

[srcarr52]

HRC scales are poorly understood, reported and even harder to measure.
Most files can remove some metal from surfaces that have been hardened up to about HRC55 so bar rails must be hardened to about this hardness
Wood cutting hand saws and chisels are usually hardened to around HRC 50 - 52
HRC40-45 is cheap axe hardness
Files themselves can be anywhere from RC 64 to RC67+

They advertise 40-45 HRC as welded, what I know is a typical bar files edges will turn round when drawn over it. Maybe because it's a small weld on a much larger object the cooling is happening faster and creating a harder surface.

 

[BobL]

They advertise 40-45 HRC as welded, what I know is a typical bar files edges will turn round when drawn over it. Maybe because it's a small weld on a much larger object the cooling is happening faster and creating a harder surface.

Could be.

 

[Adirondackstihl]

Has anyone ever actually tried making their own chainsaw milling bar?

This one looks custom. I believe it belongs to bsnelling.

:yoyo:

 

[Bashmaki]

homemade bar

It's been some years back now but I knew a logger that built a 5' bar for a pulpwood slasher that ran 1/4" chain with a hand made roller nose on it. I don't know the process he went through nor the material he used. I do remember it being an ugly thing as the bar tip would not pass through the curf but stuck out beyond the cradle of the slasher. I do know that it lasted on the slasher for the better part of a year before it needed replacing. By that time he'd made enough with the slasher to buy a factory made bar.

The whole affair was hand made and I remember that cooling the hydraulics was a bigger concern for him than the bar was.

Might be worth a try!!

gus

 

[Agustin]

misc points

Hi all this is a great forum lots of knowledge to soak in.

i have my machinist buddy here now and we were just reading over the posts.

mtngun - my buddy says yes makes sense if your not doing it at cost for a friend (he owns a large business not a home shop). he mentioned 4140 is realitavly cheap and can be heat treated easily afterwards as only the rails need heat treating.......now he is going on about how you can cut harder materials with softer tooling if you......blah blah.....way beyond my pay grade. I guess he is going to rough it out with a water jet? and thinks the tooling will last for all ten bars...... Honestly this is way past my grasp of the subject.

cityslicker- yes they will be designed to accept a standard roller tip


Well looks like we are going to give it a try i figure even if each bar is only half as durable as one i can buy then i am still farther ahead as i will have 10 for the price of one.

we were talking to an older fellow that has a saw shop in town today and he said he used to weld 2 shorter bars together to make a long one on his old race saws.


my last question is should this be 3/8 or .404 chain size? i am thinking .404 because of the bar length but thats alot of lost kerf


going to start fabing next week i will post pictures as we go

Hello, when i readed the topic i whanted to know the material so I take one of my german sthil bars to make a matherial analysis at the university , yes the german ones are made of 4140 (the solid bar with nose) the bar and the nose are made in the same matherial, the rails have a heat treatment probably with induction heating process but not so much hard (also the nose) ,
( sorry I dont have a good english but I hope you understand)

 

[rarefish383]

Agustin, welcome to the site, your English is fine. Can't wait until you start posting pictures of your milling. We love to see the woods from around the world, Joe.

 

[rarefish383]

This one looks custom. I believe it belongs to bsnelling.

:yoyo:

Funny you posted that one, it got me thinking about making a "plunge Cutter", for cutting mortises. I wanted a bar about 2 1/2 inches wide and 6 inches long. Mount the power head on a heavy drill press frame. Turn the handle and plunge through the plank, Joe.

 

[El Castor]

Hello, when i readed the topic i whanted to know the material so I take one of my german sthil bars to make a matherial analysis at the university , yes the german ones are made of 4140 (the solid bar with nose) the bar and the nose are made in the same matherial, the rails have a heat treatment probably with induction heating process but not so much hard (also the nose) ,
( sorry I dont have a good english but I hope you understand)

Would be interesting to know the material of brazilian made duromatics, gives me very poor results!
its the only duromatic available here in Argentina.

Bienvenido a AS paisano

 

[splitpost]

I take it the OPs bar never happened

 

[aesache]

I take it the OPs bar never happened

Hey all. So we actually did end up doing this. ended up with 6 bars not 10 and they worked out very nicely some minor learning items. We made them from laminated pieces a core sandwiched by 2 other pieces of metal to serve as the rails. Untreated the bars work but after about 1000 board feet the rails started to peen over pretty bad. Lube is your friend if you want these these to last We took the second bar and heat treated it to cherry red with a torch while someone followed cooling with a wet sponge. Then after cold it was heated up again until the metal turned a light brown then cooled by air. This seemed to harden the bar substantially. Several full days of cutting produced no significant wear on the bar. You need to cool it though it can get hot a constant water flow over the bar end prevents that. Seriously this method was no where near as hard or complex as everyone had thought. The hardest part was finding metal in the right thicknesses. Once we did we welded it together and only had to touch up the nose with a dremmel so that the standard sprocket nose would fit in. This was the only tweeking we had to do. The rails required no additional work after hardening. The only complaint i have is the bar sag it is about 3/8 of an inch in the centre on the alaskan miss. On our other mill that uses a band mill style bed this is not an issue as you can "stretch or tension" the bar. I may still have the file with dimensions of everthing that we used on the water jet i am happy to share them with whomever would like them

 

[Yellowbeard]

Wow. Glad you didn't let the (I hesitate to say "negativity," ..."hard nosed practicality?") get you down and went for it. Good on yer.

 

[Rodrickmills]

Hey all; I am new to the forum and milling both. I have a grandberg for my 064, and a woodland mills 126. I am not new to machining though, I have worked in job shops and currently work as a tool and die maker. I have been considering this process as well, but the thought of milling or grinding the slot in a bar sounds very daunting. I did however consider making the bar out of 3 pieces fastened together with flat head capscrews flush mounted or even rivets. This process would be very easy to pull off and make for easy repairs. High temp rtv should keep oil and sawdust from finding its way in between the layers I would think. Any opinions?

 

[Rodrickmills]

Hey all; I am new to the forum and milling both. I have a grandberg for my 064, and a woodland mills 126. I am not new to machining though, I have worked in job shops and currently work as a tool and die maker. I have been considering this process as well, but the thought of milling or grinding the slot in a bar sounds very daunting. I did however consider making the bar out of 3 pieces fastened together with flat head capscrews flush mounted or even rivets. This process would be very easy to pull off and make for easy repairs. High temp rtv should keep oil and sawdust from finding its way in between the layers I would think. Any opinions?

Wow, I just read the post above, not sure how I missed it lol. Sorry everyone, what a first impression!

 

[Maintenance supervisor]

Pictures?

 

[grizz55chev]

Pictures?

Time machine?

 

[Maintenance supervisor]

Time machine?

They had cell phones in 2015 ! , but that cellphone is probably in a drawer with fingernail clippers, a dog brush , maybe some pens and rubber bands.

 

[Brent Nowell]

They had cell phones in 2015 ! , but that cellphone is probably in a drawer with fingernail clippers, a dog brush , maybe some pens and rubber bands.

Hahaha yes that’s exactly where my old phones reside. I am not kidding! Too funny