Diesel chainsaw

[FergusonTO35]

Why?

All my automobiles and garden equipment are gas, so I only have to stock one fuel. I was an auto mechanic for my first career and I know my way around a gas engine pretty well. Not saying I can't learn diesel but it would be one more thing to worry about. Gas powered tractors tend to sell for less than diesels, at least here. Gas engines can be very fuel efficient if they are of proper design and application: my Ferguson TO-35 with bone stock Continental Z-134 engine burns around 2 gallons an hour bush hogging. I would love to have a new Massey Ferguson 2605 with a modern EFI gas engine, unfortunately as long as the industry and end users remain wedded to diesel that won't happen. If I already owned a diesel car or truck they would be more attractive but as of now keeping everything gas powered makes my life easier.

 

[ramzilla]

I am a diesel mechanic and have both diesel and gas trucks and tractors. I don't necessarily prefer one over the other but gas stuff is cheap and easy to get parts for more so than diesel around here. Plus my gas stuff is so much easier to start in the winter than my big diesel tractor

 

[FergusonTO35]

Yep. Nowadays the cost advantage of diesel has dwindled down to nearly nothing for many applications. Would love to have an F-250 Powerstroke some day though. My dads boss has one and it gets 19 mpg on the highway. By comparison that is actually a bit better than my best friend's Toyota 4Runner.

 

[Karl Robbers]

All my automobiles and garden equipment are gas, so I only have to stock one fuel. I was an auto mechanic for my first career and I know my way around a gas engine pretty well. Not saying I can't learn diesel but it would be one more thing to worry about. Gas powered tractors tend to sell for less than diesels, at least here. Gas engines can be very fuel efficient if they are of proper design and application: my Ferguson TO-35 with bone stock Continental Z-134 engine burns around 2 gallons an hour bush hogging. I would love to have a new Massey Ferguson 2605 with a modern EFI gas engine, unfortunately as long as the industry and end users remain wedded to diesel that won't happen. If I already owned a diesel car or truck they would be more attractive but as of now keeping everything gas powered makes my life easier.

Fair enough, I thought it may have been something like that. Fergie 28's (a truly horrible little tractor IMHO) and 35's, even the odd 135 with petrol engines are quite popular here for launching boats and hobby farm use and often sell for far in excess of what they were new for a good example. We don't see larger models although I realise they were made, because due to the cost advantage diesel fuel always had in Australia Diesel took over very early in the piece.

 

[Karl Robbers]

I think that the saw in the video just had a bad case gasket and sucking bar lube into the crankcase and burning it. If not he just pored more oil into the fuel tank. I am sure its a gasoline two stroke.
That's what I reckon too.
Back to the diesel saw.
Could they run some fuel into the crankcase for lube and still use a mechanical injector in the cylinder. They could pressurize the crankcase with another piston like the old Mac BP1 did and force the air, fuel mix to the combustion chamber via transfer ports.

Later
Dan

I don't see it happening in a practical sense. The fuel used for lubrication in the crankcase would need to be scavenged, have the air removed and then fed via an injector into the cylinder. Even if all this was done, the filtration needed to clean the fuel to an acceptable level so as not to destroy pump and injectors would be impractical.
The only diesel chainsaw I see as being viable is a diesel/hydraulic power pack running a hydraulic saw. Mega Dollars in that one folks.
Just as THE engine for aviation is a jet, THE engine for small hand held equipment is a 2 stroke spark ignition.
I must admit, you got me thinking about a jet powered saw. You northeners in snow country would never have cold anything with that one!

 

[Festus]

I love diesels, but I don't own one. There is no cost advantage. Although reliability isn't bad, eventually they all need very expensive repairs. Nothing is cheap about repairing a diesel. The initial cost is much higher also. There advantages are high torque and the fact that diesel fuel has more energy then gas. As far as the cost of diesel, there is no good reason it is not cheaper then gas.

On AS, we make modern chainsaws sound more complicated then they are. In truth, they are marvels of simplicity. There are no valves or complicated fuel systems. The only moving parts are the crankshaft, connecting rod and piston. Why would we want to screw with that. Even if someone did come up with a functioning and not smelly diesel chainsaw, there is no way it would be cheaper, lighter, and more efficient than a gas chainsaw.

 

[zogger]

I love diesels, but I don't own one. There is no cost advantage. Although reliability isn't bad, eventually they all need very expensive repairs. Nothing is cheap about repairing a diesel. The initial cost is much higher also. There advantages are high torque and the fact that diesel fuel has more energy then gas. As far as the cost of diesel, there is no good reason it is not cheaper then gas.

On AS, we make modern chainsaws sound more complicated then they are. In truth, they are marvels of simplicity. There are no valves or complicated fuel systems. The only moving parts are the crankshaft, connecting rod and piston. Why would we want to screw with that. Even if someone did come up with a functioning and not smelly diesel chainsaw, there is no way it would be cheaper, lighter, and more efficient than a gas chainsaw.

There's one good reason, because we are humans and humans love accomplishing what "can't be done".

Why do guys like dorking around with stock vehicles? they work when you buy them new..but..any possible coneivable mod has been done and will be done. Engine swaps, gas to diesel, diesel to gas, eityher to battery electric, to propane, to natgas, to woodgas, to..anitmatter drive!

Know what I am saying? Whoever built this prototuype, which we have not seen yet, and have no specs for or details or pics or vids, had a mental itch that needed scratching, and that is more than reason enough to give it a whack.

Would there be a market?
well..put me down as a good maybe on that. Why? We stockpile thousands of gallons of diesel here, but gasoline requires me to drive to the no E station and get cans, that's why. If there was a reliable functional diesel saw that was as good as say saws made even 20 years ago..I'm in for at least one, to try it out (given I could afford it at the time it hit market of course)

I am at 4.5 cords and counting with my battery electric saw. Lithium Ion tech tipped the scales into the "practical for some cutting jobs" area there (along with a TON of other applications, a serious game changer). That is relatively recent historically speaking. Previous tech, although it worked, was lacking, NiCad and NiMH just not suitable.

Vehicles, carbs work, simpler (somewhat, kinda sorta), cheaper, but..they just don't have the combination of mileage/power/cleanliness of FI.

Innovation and tinkering is what makes us humans really, if we ever hit a plateau where "nothing more needs to be done, it is as good as it gets"..well...I just don't think we will ever see that.

Anyway, let's see what the inventor/builder has first...whether he was just farting around or actually came up with some spiffy new ideas.

 

[bikesandcars]

Here's something I learned about diesels along the way: People buy diesel's for torque and say they buy diesel's for fuel mileage.

 

[ramzilla]

I have two identical Dodge trucks just one gas and one diesel and the diesel gets 21 mpg where the gas get 17 mpg empty. The big difference is towing the diesel still gets around 19-20 and the gas drops to like 12. The initial cost of the diesel was much higher and maintenance and repairs are much more expensive as well. If I didn't tow a lot I would not own a diesel truck I don't think. But you can't beat the torque when towing.

 

[bikesandcars]

I have two identical Dodge trucks just one gas and one diesel and the diesel gets 21 mpg where the gas get 17 mpg empty. The big difference is towing the diesel still gets around 19-20 and the gas drops to like 12. The initial cost of the diesel was much higher and maintenance and repairs are much more expensive as well. If I didn't tow a lot I would not own a diesel truck I don't think. But you can't beat the torque when towing.

There's nothing quite like going 70 up a hill loaded with stuff and pulling a trailer... at least until your EGT hits 1350 and you need to back off

Could I get that same feeling with a diesel chainsaw?

In trucks the diesel engines are huge and generally the most powerful in the lineup. my satisfaction has less to do with fuel efficiency and more to do with the fact that they are the most powerful.

When I added a on-the-fly chip and programmer to my powerstroke I gained 100 HP and a few hundred lbft torque, nothing else in ford's lineup that year comes close.

with chainsaws you would just go buy a 90 or 120cc gas saw for the same feeling.

 

[ramzilla]

Actually my diesel is only a 5.9 inline 6 cummins and the gas is a V10 8.3L

 

[CentaurG2]

I love diesels, but I don't own one. There is no cost advantage. Although reliability isn't bad, eventually they all need very expensive repairs. Nothing is cheap about repairing a diesel. The initial cost is much higher also. There advantages are high torque and the fact that diesel fuel has more energy then gas. As far as the cost of diesel, there is no good reason it is not cheaper then gas.

On AS, we make modern chainsaws sound more complicated then they are. In truth, they are marvels of simplicity. There are no valves or complicated fuel systems. The only moving parts are the crankshaft, connecting rod and piston. Why would we want to screw with that. Even if someone did come up with a functioning and not smelly diesel chainsaw, there is no way it would be cheaper, lighter, and more efficient than a gas chainsaw.

I have a single cylinder 16hp gasser mower and a 19hp 3 cylinder diesel mower. Comparison in power and fuel usage is like night and day. The diesel easily wins. With e15 and e20 gasoline just around the corner, I can see diesel anything including a chainsaw as becoming a very attractive option. I can also see battery, CNG and propane becoming attractive as well.

 

[FergusonTO35]

I like the idea of propane and CNG. The biggest problem with them right now is what tu use for a fuel tank. I think it would be neat for the vehicles to have removable tanks like a BBQ grill, you fill up by swapping tanks.

 

[Philbert]

I like the idea of propane and CNG. The biggest problem with them right now is what tu use for a fuel tank. I think it would be neat for the vehicles to have removable tanks like a BBQ grill, you fill up by swapping tanks.

Lots of propane mowers being shown in the OPE dealer magazines (and I assume on their web sites). Some of the big advantages they promote are maintenance, not E-15 issues, etc.

Chainsaws would be a bit more challenging, although, after some of the food served at GTG's . . . .

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

One example

Lot more photos if you Google 'propane lawnmower'!

Philbert

 

[zogger]

I like the idea of propane and CNG. The biggest problem with them right now is what tu use for a fuel tank. I think it would be neat for the vehicles to have removable tanks like a BBQ grill, you fill up by swapping tanks.

They make nice underframe propane tanks for pickups and trucks. I used to have one and looked into making it dual fuel(gasoline and propane) and at the time it was not that expensive, although I didn't do it (camper van)Then you get a BIG backyard propane tank, the truck fills it, and you can use an adapter to fill your truck. We have two different tanks here with adapters for filling smaller tanks, most used on the forklifts (or my grill tank, ha!), but you could fill a truck as easy. Not sure on a tractor though, would be a harder fit or retrofit. Maybe a box sticking out the front, sort of additional front weight deal there, then your BBQ tanks sitting there.

 

[bikesandcars]

what does this have to do with diesel's again?

Propane delivery trucks run on propane spark engines. Natural gas pump stations run on natural gas. It's not a diesel cycle though.

You can use CNG and Propane to augment and "boost" a diesel engine, but I've not heard yet of a direct injection pure natural gas diesel.

Diesel Natural Gas Injection - Diesel Tech - Diesel Power Magazine

Propane / natural gas as fuel for internal combustions is pretty old school actually.

With the cost of natural gas the way it is I"m suprised we don't have natural gas cars, lawmowers, chainsaws, etc. I think it would be cool to screw in a refillable CNG cylinder and use a chainsaw off of it. You'd just to gin up an oil system and you're good to go.

 

[zogger]

Lots of propane mowers being shown in the OPE dealer magazines (and I assume on their web sites). Some of the big advantages they promote are maintenance, not E-15 issues, etc.

Chainsaws would be a bit more challenging, although, after some of the food served at GTG's . . . .

Philbert

Handle bar for propane storage. Like they started the old diesel chainsaw up above. But, then what engine? Still needs to get lubed some how. Two stroke runs any position, the four mix engines still need mix gas don't they, for the oil?

Although I have a trimmer here that is four stroke, I have never tried running it upside down. Plus, well, that trimmer sucks, no guts to it at all and only will spinup wimpy string, which is useless to me doing fencelines or ditches. . It has a little oil in a crankcase, and you have to adjust the valves once in awhile. Mostly it sits, ran it one summer and my tanaka is just soo much better. If I owned it I wouldn't care at this point, I would try it upside down to see what happens, but it is my boss's trimmer. I keep it around for backup, that's it.

 

[cat-face timber]

Personally I love the smell of Diesel Smoke as well as 2-stroke smoke.

I would love to have a diesel saw, or even a 4-stroke saw.
I would not depend on them for my wood getting as I have Large Huskys for that, but they would be fun to tinker with, use, and just plain have!

 

[MasterMech]

Perhaps diesel saws are not as far fetched as we all think. The RC aircraft crowd has been converting their glow engines (carbureted 2 stroke with a hot wire ignitor) to run diesel successfully for years now. Of course they love their spark ignition 2 strokes as well. Even with a mechanically injected diesel, I could see it happening. Look at the injector for single cylinder LCT diesels that are usually powering a generator for an example of a ridiculously simple injection pump for a single cylinder engine.