Englander model 28-3500 wood furnace

[Skier44]

Water Loop for D.H.W. 2B or not 2B???

Skier, If and when you put that hilcoil where would you mount it? above or below the smoke shelf? been thinking bout putting one on.. have one of these stoves for five years and love it heat a big rancher with it 7 cords a year

I would put it as near to the top of the inside of the firebox as possible. I would go with the 24" single loop that they make. Here are some of my concerns. I need to have a way to dump the extra heated anti-freeze after the waterheater is to temp. I would consider using a fancoil type setup and let it blow off into the basement. I have a 35 gallon indirect water heater that I picked up on CL. I've tested it at pressures up to 150 psi, it's a champ. I'll use this as a pre-heater or tempering tank placed before the water heater. I'll need to circulate between the two tanks. The other heat circuit going thru the stove will be of a food safe anti-freeze and back into the exchanger of the tempering tank. Both circuits will require expansion tanks, pumps and I havn't decided on a controlling system as of yet. I'd like to put one of my old PCs to use by connecting thermistors and be able to control flow rates in the pumps. Because dreaming doesn't get it done... I'll probably go with aquastats or something like that. I really believe this has to be a dynamic setup to adapt to the amount of heat being produced in the Englander. Smoldering would require slow pump speeds and a blasting fire, the opposite. Heating a liquid is a whole other game and if not played correctly, could end in a violent explosion. For me, I have to see it all on paper before I start drilling... I want to eventually use a few flatplate solar collectors for heating the tempering tank in the summer. This can get really, really complicated but I know there is a way through the chaos...

Another point I did not reveal: I know that many have stated their cord usage around 7 to 10 and that mine being at 4-5, seems very low... I built my house using 2x6 walls with the cavities filled with closed cell foam from Corbond. The house is amazingly air tight but also very well insulated. I have my windows covered with dual core shades and this makes a huge difference...

Back to the Hilkoil thing... If anybody else out there has any experience using these in the same application, I would like to read about it.
Thanks...

 

[jreed]

Im new to furnaces and was looking around at different brands. I am planning on installing a stand alone wood furnace and having new ductwork installed. Will this furnace work in that capacity or is it an addon only?

 

[Skier44]

Im new to furnaces and was looking around at different brands. I am planning on installing a stand alone wood furnace and having new ductwork installed. Will this furnace work in that capacity or is it an addon only?

This would be an add on furnace... I can't imagine that the 850 cfm blower would suffice in any sizing. Others may want to chime in on this question as well. I use mine as the primary, and so far this year, the only source of heat. I have a forced hot air oil furnace just in case the weather gets like the movie "The Day After Tomorrow" cold... Keep in mind that if you want to go somewhere for a week or two, and you want the house to keep from freezing, no wood stove will do that for you, unless it comes with a homeless relative that knows the deference between taking the chill out and burning the house down. Also if you are going central air, you'll need the larger blower. If these things are not an issue, an air handler would do the job as well.
Remember, what works good for somebody may not be your answer as all houses have different characteristics and requirements not to mention your own preferences. I have saved a ton of money in the last three years, but it did not happen without considerable effort. The work to get in 5-10 cords, cut, split, stacked is enormous... remember too that time is money. There have been times where I want to just go to the thermostat, set it and forget it.

 

[flotek]

This would be an add on furnace... I can't imagine that the 850 cfm blower would suffice in any sizing. Others may want to chime in on this question as well.

here was my explanation to the blower from a previous post :

nice thing is the englander blower may be small in cfm (850cfm)compared to alot of other furnace units but this is actually a good thing in a way because it wont have the firebox cooling effect other models do once the fire eventually dies down ,to me a strong fan is nothing special if it only lasts 3-4 hours then ultimately cools the box temps and makes creosote just blasting cold air through the ducts ..in my unit even if you only have a 200 degree stack temp the registers still seems to blow warmer than ambient temperature for many hours well into the coaling stage and that helps level things out

 

[Skier44]

here was my explanation to the blower from a previous post :

nice thing is the englander blower may be small in cfm (850cfm)compared to alot of other furnace units but this is actually a good thing in a way because it wont have the firebox cooling effect other models do once the fire eventually dies down ,to me a strong fan is nothing special if it only lasts 3-4 hours then ultimately cools the box temps and makes creosote just blasting cold air through the ducts ..in my unit even if you only have a 200 degree stack temp the registers still seems to blow warmer than ambient temperature for many hours well into the coaling stage and that helps level things out

I completely agree... But I do use my furnace blower, from time to time, to help move the hot air coming from the Englander when I have a very hot fire going. The plenum gets hot enough to turn the blower on from the furnace once in awhile. Other times, I just turn the blower on from the thermostat for the first 20mins to hour. The 850 puts out too little to be the main blower in my house. 2700 sq ft on the first floor alone means there are long duct runs. Also the returns have better suction this way.

 

[Tedward]

Yea I would say just an add on... But an add on that would pay for itself....... My house is 36' wide 76'long and full basement lp hot air as primary heat... At the farthest end of the house it gets alittle cool compared to directly above where the stove is, But still I am very happy with the englander... I previously had a vermont casting defiant no comparison at all to the englander

 

[jburner]

I would put it as near to the top of the inside of the firebox as possible. I would go with the 24" single loop that they make. Here are some of my concerns. I need to have a way to dump the extra heated anti-freeze after the waterheater is to temp. I would consider using a fancoil type setup and let it blow off into the basement. I have a 35 gallon indirect water heater that I picked up on CL. I've tested it at pressures up to 150 psi, it's a champ. I'll use this as a pre-heater or tempering tank placed before the water heater. I'll need to circulate between the two tanks. The other heat circuit going thru the stove will be of a food safe anti-freeze and back into the exchanger of the tempering tank. Both circuits will require expansion tanks, pumps and I havn't decided on a controlling system as of yet. I'd like to put one of my old PCs to use by connecting thermistors and be able to control flow rates in the pumps. Because dreaming doesn't get it done... I'll probably go with aquastats or something like that. I really believe this has to be a dynamic setup to adapt to the amount of heat being produced in the Englander. Smoldering would require slow pump speeds and a blasting fire, the opposite. Heating a liquid is a whole other game and if not played correctly, could end in a violent explosion. For me, I have to see it all on paper before I start drilling... I want to eventually use a few flatplate solar collectors for heating the tempering tank in the summer. This can get really, really complicated but I know there is a way through the chaos...

Another point I did not reveal: I know that many have stated their cord usage around 7 to 10 and that mine being at 4-5, seems very low... I built my house using 2x6 walls with the cavities filled with closed cell foam from Corbond. The house is amazingly air tight but also very well insulated. I have my windows covered with dual core shades and this makes a huge difference...

Back to the Hilkoil thing... If anybody else out there has any experience using these in the same application, I would like to read about it.
Thanks...

SKier - Did you ever install a Hilkoil water heater? Is that approved by Englander?

 

[Skier44]

SKier - Did you ever install a Hilkoil water heater? Is that approved by Englander?

Jburner: No to both... Still on the "to do list" though. Now considering something more passive that will not affect the heating properties of the stove or flue exhaust temps at all. My stove pipe travels a good five feet at a 30 degree (from horizontal) pitch before going full plumb to the Flue. A considerable amount of heat comes off this pipe. I'm not going to wrap this pipe with copper but instead try capturing this extra heat with something suspended above the stove pipe. My main goal in this method would be to reduce the delta T (pre-warm) the water so the electric water heater works less. I may also just go forward with the Hilkoil but I've heard and read about corrosion pitting problems on these types of setups, some after a very short time span. If I'm to lay down the greenbacks, it has to work as a solid solution for a good number of years. So far, the corrosion pitting has me concerned enough to look for other solutions. To be continued...

 

[gpsman007]

http://www.homedepot.com/Englander/...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

 

[mustangwagz]

Have any of you guys thought about adding "Secondary Burn" tubes to the Englander Fire Breathing Dragon? Ive got one too, going on 3 years now. i get some insane heat out of this thing. Currently at 88 degree's and im rollin on just coals now. lol I bought it to keep warm...and it does that along with melt the snow off my roof within a day when we get a sudden 2 foot drop of snow. (Sure beats shoveling, but plays hell on my gutters..lol) Most amt of time ive got outta this thing is 10 hours of burn time.. Thats with HUGE splits of wood. Talkin 3 pieces MAX and its upto the baffle plate. i was wandering if adding secondary burn tubes would help with burn times for smaller loads? as in we could then turn down the main stream drafts (Spin Valve on ash door, and Over Fire draft above glass door) and make Less emissions, with longer burn times? I read an article on here about a guy who did this with a diffrent woodburner. and i'm seeing MORE and MORE newer burners that do this.

What do you guys think?

 

[jburner]

I've already done this to my 28-3500 with cast iron pipe, still holding up well. I posted a bunch of info on it, but I can't remember where, whether here or on **********. . . I'll have to hunt around for it. Here's a link to it burning. Englander Furnace Secondary #2 - YouTube

 

[mustangwagz]

I've already done this to my 28-3500 with cast iron pipe, still holding up well. I posted a bunch of info on it, but I can't remember where, whether here or on **********. . . I'll have to hunt around for it. Here's a link to it burning. Englander Furnace Secondary #2 - YouTube

AWESOME!!! Let me know when you find the pictures. i'd like some detailed ones if possible. Like to see Where you mounted the tube, how you routed the piping and where it exited the burner at.

Also, how much has this helped the burner? has it helped with burn times? What about the creosote buildup? I have very little with mine now, cuz i burn so warm with it..but figured that if i can damp it down via the 2 built in dampers, and open the secondary to burn cleaner, etc etc, burn times shoudl go up, and crap gasses should go down in theory.

Cant wait to hear back jburner! Let me know bud!

 

[mustangwagz]

Pictures aint workin j...

 

[jburner]

AWESOME!!! Let me know when you find the pictures. i'd like some detailed ones if possible. Like to see Where you mounted the tube, how you routed the piping and where it exited the burner at.

Also, how much has this helped the burner? has it helped with burn times? What about the creosote buildup? I have very little with mine now, cuz i burn so warm with it..but figured that if i can damp it down via the 2 built in dampers, and open the secondary to burn cleaner, etc etc, burn times shoudl go up, and crap gasses should go down in theory.

Cant wait to hear back jburner! Let me know bud!

Can't find my pics, but here is one I just shot. Pretty crappy looking, nice and dirty. Firebrick is added above and wherever I could squeeze it is. The baffle plate is still in there up above. The pics should tell you alot. I think the pipe is 1" ID cast iron pipe. The ladder rungs each have 16 holes, and I believe they are 1/8 - 3/16" (can't remember) I just remember drilling alot of holes. Everything fits together loosely, DO NOT TIGHTEN EVERYTHING TOGETHER, you don't be able to replace anything if you don't. I put the sides in first, then the "ladder" rungs. They slide all the way to one side, and then back to sit in the other side. Never mind my crap weld job on the front. There could be more air above the fire, but it works. I get more flame inside the firebox, that's for sure. Burn times, I'd say I get 1-2hrs more. Not really sure with the crap wood I'm burning right now (silver maple). Creosote last year was about 2 gallons for the whole year. This year I don't know if it's the wood or what, but just cleaned chimney and found quite a bit in there, probably because of the shoulder season, too many hot/cold days, and not running it hot enough or ignoring the fire too long. I usually run it with the bottom screw damper open one to two "cogs". I marked mine with white paint so I know where it's at. The top damper I usually run at 1 finger width open when the secondaries and furnace fan kick in and the flames are really going. It does take longer for the furnace fan to start from cold because the firebrick needs to warm up, but you recoup it later on after the fire has gone out. I'd say that's it for now, ask away...I'll see if I can get these pictures up or not...View attachment 209302

 

[jburner]

One more, with the crappy weld job!!View attachment 209303

That youtube video is the actual furnace mod though. It still burns that way.

 

[jburner]

They should be working now. At least they do for me. What happens when you click on the link?

 

[Tkramer]

Thanks for posting pictures and video. I've had my englander since 2001 and it still going strong. I'm in the process of replacing my steel baffle with a custom refractory and adding secondary burn tubes while I'm in there. As far as the hot water coil goes I installed a homemade setup and love it. It dropped my electric bill $56 dollars the first month and our January bill was down $71 over last year. 5 showers a day plus laundry = a lot of hot water usage. Here are some pics of my setup. The coil is schedule 40 stainless and I installed three safety blowoffs. 40watt circulatory and 150 gallon of storage.

 

[cabman]

why can`t you add a coil of copper on top of the fire bricks to heat domestic htw.

 

[Vector6]

28-3500 burn issues

First post here, and i need some advice

just installed an Englander 28-3500 on xmas eve... i am having a hard time figuring the proper way to burn it. (used to the a fireplace)

it seems to burn the end of the wood closest to the door, and turns the ends in the back to char.

i continually have to go down and pull the un-burned ends towards the front to get them to burn.

typically i leave the spinner on the ash door closed as it seems to really be useless and run the other one about half way open.

help ! does anyone have any suggestions to help me get a better burn from this stove?

 

[mustangwagz]

First post here, and i need some advice

just installed an Englander 28-3500 on xmas eve... i am having a hard time figuring the proper way to burn it. (used to the a fireplace)

it seems to burn the end of the wood closest to the door, and turns the ends in the back to char.

i continually have to go down and pull the un-burned ends towards the front to get them to burn.

typically i leave the spinner on the ash door closed as it seems to really be useless and run the other one about half way open.

help ! does anyone have any suggestions to help me get a better burn from this stove?

Ok, first suggestion, Get a stove pipe thermometer vector, that'll help ya greately. Place it about 18" from top of the stove. Be sure it isnt placed anywher that your stove pipes overlap. this way you get a good accurate reading. Second, Open the spin draft door about the thickness of a dime. by this i mean, open enough that you can slide a dime the WHOLE way around the spin draft and it wont touch or get caught. (As in, If you were to place a dime between the ash pan door, and the spin draft and then close the draft it would hold the dime there...then just slighly spin it open a little bit more) Also, as for the top slide draft, this keeps your door clean, and your air flowing in that area. I find this slide good for FINE tuning the stove. I typically open mine up on the bottom as stated, then run my top slide No more than half ways open. The top slide is open fully when slid to the left and closed fully when slid to the right. A tip that you can use, and has helped me neighbors with theirs, take a paint pen and mark the FULLY OPEN position, and the FULLY CLOSED postion. This way you can glance at it and see whats going on. The paint pen also works good on the spin draft. What i did was Make a mark in the "12-O-clock" position on the ash pan door, AND on the spin draft. Then i counted how many FULL revolutions open. This also helps for a quick glance at how far open yoru drafts are.

I had same problem man, but once you get used to it, you'll be sleeping with window fans on and doors open. lol Another THing that you may notice. Once your stove is seasoned, the "BOLT" in the ash pan door may start coming into contact with the ash pan handle. IF IT DOES, just smack the hendle with a hammer, and crease the center of it IN towards the pan. This helped me. Mine would line up perfectly somtiems and make the ashpan door hard to close? but not anymore!

Go over the stove once a year and tightne up the bolts/screws. They like to vibrate. Also, my thermostat is noisy as hell man, so i elminated it and switched to an adjustable snap disc.

I also added a filter box to mine, but i had to build it.


Hope this helps, keep us posted!