Ethanol fuel additives?

[Andyshine77]

The regulation of fuel quality, and on pump notifications is far too loose IMHO. In Ohio there is no requirement to post weather or not the fuel you're buying has Ethanol in it, let alone how much it has. A friend of mine bought a test kit, and we found most of the local pumps we use, had around 6% ethanol. However there was a couple that were around 11% to 12%

Phase separation is not really a concern if you store fuel in a proper can, in a somewhat stable environment. IMHO it's the Sodium sulfate "which is corrosive" and how alcohol attacks rubber and plastic.

Luckily a local family owned fuel company started offering non ethanol fuel a few months ago.

 

[7sleeper]

I'm surprised you have Ethanol in your country. I thought the US was the only one forcing this hoax on there country.




More reading is good, you just have to be careful where your reading it from. These internet boards are full of bull sometime.

I got my education the hard way after having been surprised to find that I even had a Ethanol problem. (thats a whole other story how are government stuck it up our behinds) I ended up having to replace fuel lines on 50 of my own saws at once from it.

My fuel at the time tested 30%. I got my education from folks in the know, the fuel line manufacture among other places.

I have done my own testing for the last 3 going on 4 years now. I have tried several additives in my own equipment stored for 6-7 months at a time. Lawn mowers, golf carts, jet ski, trimmers, sealed and unsealed test jars.

I have concluded that Startron is the best I have used. Really works, no phase separation in anything, equipment, sealed test jars and test jars that had a bit of water added.

The gas at the end of 7 months even smelled fresher then Stabil or ethanol shield as unscientific as that is.

Believe what you want, but I know what works for me. I took the time to research and do my own testing.

Been here at least as long as in your country. The hype after introduction has gone away quite fast and nothing has been heard in recent years. Only the recurrent discussion of burning food instead of feading people.

7

 

[Vibes]

Been here at least as long as in your country. The hype after introduction has gone away quite fast and nothing has been heard in recent years. Only the recurrent discussion of burning food instead of feading people.

7

Besides ethanols ill effects on my machinery the fact that it also raises the price of food p!sses me off more. Especially when it can be made from tall grasses as it is in South America

 

[7sleeper]

Besides ethanols ill effects on my machinery the fact that it also raises the price of food p!sses me off more. Especially when it can be made from tall grasses as it is in South America

Actually it is made out of sugar cane in south america.

7

 

[Modifiedmark]

The regulation of fuel quality, and on pump notifications is far too loose IMHO. In Ohio there is no requirement to post weather or not the fuel you're buying has Ethanol in it, let alone how much it has. A friend of mine bought a test kit, and we found most of the local pumps we use, had around 6% ethanol. However there was a couple that were around 11% to 12%

Phase separation is not really a concern if you store fuel in a proper can, in a somewhat stable environment. IMHO it's the Sodium sulfate "which is corrosive" and how alcohol attacks rubber and plastic.

Luckily a local family owned fuel company started offering non ethanol fuel a few months ago.

View attachment 389494

I didn't really want to get in to all this part about it, but oh well.

If everyone remembers when they first started screwing around with this ethanol crap, the pumps were labeled "may contain up to 10% Ethanol". That was a regulation that was in place at the time.

Regulations were later made that so many gallons of renewable fuel sources (Ethanol) had to be used each year basically requiring all fuels to contain Ethanol.

When that happened the regulation requiring the pump be labeled to show the Ethanol content was thrown out the window as basically all fuel would now have it. The problem was they didn't really tell anyone about the label change.

Thats what took everyone by surprise and how I myself found myself in a quandary with a bad Ethanol problem.

People were used to using a pump without a label on it but now were doing so and pumping Ethanol blend fuel without their knowledge.

With the idiots now pushing for E15 and E20 at least from what I understand, those pumps containing a higher blend would have to be labeled as such, which of course they should be.

I'm done with the subject for now, I could go on but all I would do it piss off all the farmers on this board as well as maybe a few others. It's a sore subject to me.

I will just say that as far as I'm concerned the Ethanol deal here in the US has to be one of the largest scams ever put on the population. Feel free to agree or disagree, I don't care, but do your homework before you do.

 

[Modifiedmark]

Been here at least as long as in your country. The hype after introduction has gone away quite fast and nothing has been heard in recent years. Only the recurrent discussion of burning food instead of feading people.

7

Yeah its died down here somewhat as well and that is sad. It's what the fat cats wanted to happen.

I will also say the bad blends that were out there when first put on the market have become better and somewhat more consistent. To the point I really don't test it as often anymore when brought home in a can.

 

[fordf150]

I love ethanol! Couldnt ask for more enviromentally friendly cost efficient fuel source! And look at all the up sides to it. lower mpg, higher maintenance costs on equipment, higher cost of the production of said equipment, more replacement parts being produced for that equipment, higher cost of anything with corn as an ingredient, higher cost of livestock feed and the products that are eventually sold from that livestock more virgin ground being turned into useable farmland, more fertilizer being produced and used to produce all that extra corn, don't forget the feel good warm and fuzzy feeling from the perceived lower emissions from using 5% ethanol in our gasoline and the list just goes on and on.

Whats not to love about the stuff

 

[7sleeper]

I love ethanol! ....
Whats not to love about the stuff?

I ain't making no money with it!

7

 

[Philip Wheelock]

Star Tron for running saws, MotoMix for storage.

 

[Brushpile]

This may be old news to you good folks, but, my local Echo dealer had this experiment set up in his shop the other day. From l-r is K100, Sta-bil, Lucas, and Sea Foam. Each mixed 50/50 with water.
He may have been exaggerating, but claimed the k100 would make water burn. I don't use ethanol gas myself, or stabilizers, but thought this might be of interest to some.

 

[Cope1024]

Fuel Medic was recommended by my shop.

 

[ANewSawyer]

My local, very reliable two cycle shop says that Startron is way to go. He had his own personal saw carb gum up with Sta-bil. He only recommends Startron.

(This is not a paid indorsement of any product, person or shop.)

 

[Cope1024]

Actually it is made out of sugar cane in south america.

7

I wish that were so. In the US Ethanol production takes the majority of the corn crop. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml

 

[NWCoaster]

I wish that were so. In the US Ethanol production takes the majority of the corn crop. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml

Ethanol/Gasoline mix will NOT phase seperate until water is introduced into the mixture. So if you keep all moisture out of your fuel, there will be no seperation. In a tightly closed proper fuel can, this should not be a problem. On the other hand, if the fuel storage tank on a piece of equipment has a vent that can exhale and inhale due to thermal cycling, eventually the water will absorb into the ethanol and result in seperation. Some additives are fairly good at keeping the emulsified mixture in sepension and are designed that way, others are designed to do the opposite and attempt to drop the water out of suspension so it setles to the bottom of the fuel, thus removing it from the bulk of the fuel. I always keep a fuel stabilizer in my stored fuel to prevent oxidation and seperation just to be on the safe side, and have never had a problem with Ethanol laced gasoline. BTW, I work for a large multinational brand oil refinery and have some insight into the ethanol additon system. It is all computer controlled here and very accurate, all batches are tested for quality assurance before leaving the loading racks or tank farm. The refinery does not want to voluntarily GIVE AWAY ethanol since it is a blendstock we have to purchase and do not produce on site.

 

[olyman]

Ethanol causes major problems 2 ways. First is that the pump says 10 percent and there is really 20 in it. The second is from letting gas sit the ethanol separates from the gasoline leaving you with a big slug of pure ethanol in the tank.
All the other problems associated with ethanol are just symptoms of the accelerated deterioration of rubber components.

You can avoid the slug of ethanol by shaking your fuel can before filling the saw up and that accelerated deterioration of rubber can be offset somewhat by not letting equipment sit around with fuel in it.

you should see what happens to 4 stroke air cooleds,,when eth gas sits in the carb toooo long...niiiiiice....looks like white chrystal slime..and will eat thru aluminum fuel bowls...NO MORE!! 30 cents a gallon gas with no eth is worth it. ive had one tooo many of my 4 stroke carbs apart!!!!!!!!!!! and bought two new bowls, tho the new ones were steel..............

 

[Bill Becker]

In the central New York state and central Virginia state areas that are predominately farm country it is interesting that many gas stations have pump gas without ethanol. Wise old farmers don't like ethanol in their machinery.

 

[jhellwig]

This may be old news to you good folks, but, my local Echo dealer had this experiment set up in his shop the other day. From l-r is K100, Sta-bil, Lucas, and Sea Foam. Each mixed 50/50 with water. View attachment 426039
He may have been exaggerating, but claimed the k100 would make water burn. I don't use ethanol gas myself, or stabilizers, but thought this might be of interest to some.

This right here proves how dumb these fuel tratment arguments it: http://www.noco.com/documents/Fuels PDS/MSDS K100.pdf What is the main ingredient in the product? AN ALCOHOL. Guess what alcohol does? Emulsifies water. Guess what ethanol it? AN ALCOHOL.

If I could get my info from my eigth grade science project it would proove that there is nothing wrong with ethanol and that it will actualy emulsify water and take it through they system. IF you take a sample of gas with ethanol in it and add water and shake you will see it dissapear. Then after a while the water will fall out of suspension. IF you do the same thing with non ethanol gas it will do the same thing only the water will seperate faster. WATER WILL NOT EMULSIFY IN GASOLINE.

Ethanol is a solovent. Petrolium distalates are a solovent. All of your fuel treatments contain a solovent be it an alcohol or a pretrolium distalate.

 

[jhellwig]

I wish that were so. In the US Ethanol production takes the majority of the corn crop. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml

Not by a long shot.

Also the by products of ethanol production are useable as a feedstock for animals. It has lost very little of it useability as a feed compaired to straight corn.

 

[Andyshine77]

This right here proves how dumb these fuel tratment arguments it: http://www.noco.com/documents/Fuels PDS/MSDS K100.pdf What is the main ingredient in the product? AN ALCOHOL. Guess what alcohol does? Emulsifies water. Guess what ethanol it? AN ALCOHOL.

If I could get my info from my eigth grade science project it would proove that there is nothing wrong with ethanol and that it will actualy emulsify water and take it through they system. IF you take a sample of gas with ethanol in it and add water and shake you will see it dissapear. Then after a while the water will fall out of suspension. IF you do the same thing with non ethanol gas it will do the same thing only the water will seperate faster. WATER WILL NOT EMULSIFY IN GASOLINE.

Ethanol is a solovent. Petrolium distalates are a solovent. All of your fuel treatments contain a solovent be it an alcohol or a pretrolium distalate.

Correct, most fuel treatments contain alcohol. Startron is petroleum based, and does contain organic material, which is supposed to be an enzyme. Startron is the only fuel stabilizer i'd recommend.

 

[jhellwig]

Correct, most fuel treatments contain alcohol. Startron is petroleum based, and does contain organic material, which is supposed to be an enzyme. Startron is the only fuel stabilizer i'd recommend.

It is 95% naptha and 5% proprietary organic compound. Almost All of your stabizers and cleaners have mostly petroleum distillates in them.

Don't forget that ethanol is an organic compound created by an enzyme.