Ethanol fuel additives?

[Whitespider]

Gasoline goes sour (degrades) by two different processes... evaporation of volatiles and oxidation.

A gasoline stabilizer slows down, but cannot stop the oxidation process by utilizing antioxidants, it cannot reduce the evaporation of volatiles.
Ethanol treatments are snake oil...

A gasoline stabilizer may extend the storage life of gasoline depending on the condition of the gas when the stabilizer is added and the storage conditions.
Ethanol treatments are snake oil...

Ethanol is a gasoline oxygenate, it reduces the storage life of gasoline by increasing the rate of oxidation (see reformulated gasoline).
Ethanol blended gasoline already contains more stabilizers right from the pump than any other gasoline in history.
Ethanol treatments are snake oil... if they had any provable value they would already be in the fuel.
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[Whitespider]

Fuel adatives all contain a solovents weather it be petroleum based or alcohol based. Most of the petrolium based ones are made up of stuff that is already in gasoline. Most of the alcohol ones are made up of stuff that has similar properties to ethanol.
Pick whatever you want. The whole 2 ounces of adative in 5 gallons of gas isn't going to make much difference.
Adding a very small amount of a chemical that is similar to or already in gasoline to begin with isn't going to make much difference.

You are aware the 2 ounces of solvent is simply the carrier for the antioxidants...right??
Without the carrier to add bulk it wouldn't be possible for the regular guy to measure the amount of additive (stabilizer/antioxidant) required because it would be so miniscule.
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[jhellwig]

I was talking about stabilizers and other similar adatives. That is what this thread was about.

seems to me,, all the talk was about ethanol.................and the title of this thread,,or did you change the op's title???

Apparently you can't read either. Try reading the first post again.

 

[Cope1024]

Fuel Medic.

 

[Whitespider]

Take, for example, the well know fuel stabilizer STABIL...
The MSDS shows just two ingredients...

• Additive Mixture 5% (the actual stabilizer)
• Petroleum Distillate 95% CAS#64742-47-8 (the carrier)

If you pull up the CAS sheet for 64742-47-8 you will learn it's hydrotreated light petroleum distillate for use in heating and lighting equipment... basically, kerosene.
When you add 2 ounces of STABIL to 5 gallons of gasoline, you're really only adding about 3 CCs of actual stabilizer additive (about ½ teaspoon).
Think about that... without the carrier for bulk, 2 ounces of STABIL would treat 100 gallons of gas. How would you accurately measure 3 CCs to treat your 5 gallon container?? How would you measure 1½ CCs to treat your 2½ gallon container?? What if you wanted to treat 1 gallon of gasoline??
The kerosene (the carrier) is to make the product user friendly... they can mold little lines right on the bottle representing an approximate 1 ounce for consumer convenience. Heck, with the carrier adding bulk you can pretty much use the guess-'n'-by-gosh method without screwin' it up enough to matter for owl squat... 5 gallon gas, 2 splashes STABIL, close enough.

Of course, this assumes the "additive mixture" is a liquid... because it's proprietary we don't really know. Without the kerosene it may be a dry powdery substance... a Cocaine snorting spoon would be to large for measuring it.
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[Deleted member 83629]

i use 1 ounce per gallon of stabil either the blue or red formulation when i use to buy E5 or E10 i never had any problems but gas never really got stale because i used it so fast.

 

[Whitespider]

i use 1 ounce per gallon of stabil either the blue or red formulation when i use to buy E5 or E10 i never had any problems...

The only thing I use a fuel stabilizer in is the emergency generator... I use the small bottle of STABIL to 6 gallon 91 octane E-free gas.
I start and test run the generator every month, drain the fuel every 12 months and replace with fresh (if it ain't been used). Except for one time, the fuel always looks and smells fine after 12 months, and it burns fine in the grass cutter and whatnot. The one time the gas went bad, the generator wouldn't start after just three months... I drained it and dumped it in the wife's van. The next day she complained her van was "running funny"

That gas, the stuff that went bad, came from a different gas station then where I normally buy it (shrug)
I really don't know if the stabilizer works or not... but it only costs a couple bucks, and it can't hurt.
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[Deleted member 83629]

i got a tank of fuel from a unknown station last week only station for 12 miles and needed gas well i filled it up and my truck after a fuel miles would buck like mule
and cough. i guess the little station doesn't sell much gas or i got a tank of E15 the ole 88 f250 didn't like it one bit.

after burning it out and filling it back with co-op gas it was fine strange?

 

[anlrolfe]

Any major change in octane can throw a computer controlled fuel injected vehicle into fits.

1) There is NO SUBSTITUTE for FRESH gas !
2) No fuel additive eliminated water. Flash update, it's still in there.
3) Fuel conditioners and stabilizers may reduce oxidation and breakdown but do not reverse their effects of eliminate them.
4) Carb & Injector cleaners are mostly kerosene. This improves octane(miniscule) and when you add 8oz to 25gallons of gas you can claim that it also improves fuel economy. Yah, right.

Now with all this said, I use Lucas fuel stabilizer, Lucas ethanol fuel additive, Sea Foam, Marvel and Sta-Bil... but not all at the same time.

 

[Deleted member 83629]

i use berryman b12 fuel injector / carburetor cleaner read up on the ingredients its in a metal can for a reason.

 

[Whitespider]

Now with all this said, I use Lucas fuel stabilizer, Lucas ethanol fuel additive, Sea Foam, Marvel and Sta-Bil... but not all at the same time.

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[Full Chisel]

The only real way to prevent ethanol problems is to mix water with the fuel and siphon off the pure gas leaving behind the ethanol/water mixture. Nothing else will remove the ethanol or prevent the issues it causes.

 

[Whitespider]

The only real way to prevent ethanol problems is to mix water with the fuel and siphon off the pure gas leaving behind the ethanol/water mixture.

That is not ideal... that gas will have a lower octane rating, typically 2-4 points lower. If you start with 87 octane E10 and remove the ethanol, you'll typically be left with 84-85 octane gasoline... and that's flat too low.
B'sides, "pure" gas is not pure gas... gasoline is a complex blend of petroleum distillates, chemicals and additives; formulations vary by area, season, brand name, etc. Some of those components, or especially additives may be intended to work properly with the ethanol... without some way of chemically analyzing the separated fuel, you have no idea what you've got. You may actually be worse off after removing the ethanol... you just don't know.

What I'm gettin' at here is that low-grade 84-85 octane gasoline is produced now-a-days specifically intended to be blended with a higher octane component... usually ethanol, sometimes higher-grade gasoline, plus additives as required or wanted. The garage chemist has no possible way of knowing what he has created... good, bad, or otherwise.
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[Full Chisel]

You're over thinking this. Even if you loose a few points of octane, you should be starting with premium fuel(90+) to begin with so it should still be alright to use. I run the highest octane I can get, which is usually 93 octane.

 

[Whitespider]

You're over thinking this. Even if you loose a few points of octane, you should be starting with premium fuel(90+) to begin with so it should still be alright to use.

Ummmm....
Most all of the E10 'round here is 87 octane, most all the high-grade gas don't contain ethanol.
Even starting with 90 0r 91 you'd still end up with 87 best case... and that's too low for most any 2-stroke in my book.
Anything less than 89 has been problematic in my stuff.
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[7sleeper]

This whole topic is "overthinking". If your saws rest so much that the evil ethanol can do it's task, you either have 1. too little wood, 2. too many saws or 3. both.

All this paranoia is really pretty pathetic. Who cares if you have to repalce a fuel line or carb membranes on a 10, 15 or 20 year old saw! The replacement will last at least another 5-10 years! And who knows if you will still have that saw by then... And if you don't want the "evil" stuff in your saw while resting, just dump it out, with an open fuel tank pull the chord a few times and you system will be "dry" and dump the fuel into your lawnmower/tractor/car whatever.

Guys go out and cut some wood!

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[Whitespider]

This whole topic is "overthinking".
Who cares if you have to repalce a fuel line or carb membranes on a 10, 15 or 20 year old saw! The replacement will last at least another 5-10 years!

Ummmm.....
You've obviously never seen what the combination of a little free water and ethanol can do to engine and carburetor metal in just a few weeks.

 

[Full Chisel]

The stuff isn't good for fuel systems on small engines, that's for sure. I hate that almost all of the gas around here is E-10, including the higher octanes.

 

[Andyshine77]

Ethanol has no business being in our fuel! Anyone that says otherwise has something to gain from it, or they're a moron.

 

[Bilge Rat LT 20]

Federal regs state that no fuel blended with ethanol be stored in the tanks at a fuel distibutor.
The ethanol is in a seperate tank and pipes. It is only blended into the gas as it enters the tanker truck that will deliver it to the gas station that day.
The real gas is pumped into the mix station where the specific additives,coloring, etc are added. Each brand of gas has it's own specs for their additive package so many brands of gas come from the same distribution center. Same base gas for all, just the additives are different.
In all brands the ethanol is only added to the fuel as it enters the tanker to be delivered.

Why do regs state ethanol cannot be mixed and stored in the large bulk tanks???
Because it will settle and it will CORRODE the tanks, pipes, mixing equipment making them unsafe!!!
So, how can anyone say that this stuff is not a bad thing for fuel systems.

Older cars, small motors, boats, all have vented tanks that allow them to breathe moisture laden air.
Newer cars have sealed tanks and use fuel daily reducing the bad effects of ethanol.

Boats have bad problems with ethanol fuels. Fuel lines get eaten, corrosion, injectors clogged and a sand like residue forming in float bowls and injector pump sumps. This residue is formed when the fuel sits in a hot engine after it is run then shut down. You run to a spot, shut down, fish then crank up and run again. The residue is formed during the heat/cool cycle with the ethanol realeasing dissolved additives, crud that it has stripped out of the tank etc. This crud will clog carbs, injectors causing a lean condition, we all know what can happen next.
This crud is formed after the fuel has passed thru 2 or 3 filters, it is in solution and cannot be filtered out.

Yeah ethanol is just great!
10% ethanol = 8% reduction in fuel mileage

Some race engines use methanol, they buy it at the race site, run it then drain the fuel system and run some real gas thru it so everything will not corrode.

Cost of growing corn? How much energy is used to produce and deliver the high nitrogen fertilizer that corn needs?
Then every few years tons of lime need to be put on the fields to adjust the Ph due to all the nitrogen.

The mechanical problems have already been mentioned.
Tax money is used to pay the ethanol producers to make it so they can afford to stay in business.

And some people still defend, justify ethanol use.

Reminds me of the saying,
Don't confuse me with facts my mind is already made up!!!