Fallen tree being covered by Home Owner's Insurance, underpaid?

[xavier847]

I'm a small, bare bones, start up that had a return client have a 70+ft tall, 4ft+diameter Hackberry fall on one of their properties. The trunk was resting on a tenant's car, limbs were on the power line and the apt building. Picture attached.

I underbid jobs because I need the work and have very thin overhead. I'm working towards my own name and although I bid extremely low for this job given the complexity of it, the owner refused to pay more than what the insurance was covering. I was hoping to get your opinions on what a job like this should cost.

The job was an emergency storm damage and after 20 hours with 2 of us on the job, it's down and all is removed but the trunk because I don't have the equipment to move it and the price she's paying doesn't justify the labor to move it myself.

[photo=large]4786[/photo]

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Tree fiddy

 

[Brian72]

First off, get ready for a little backlash from others. Guys don't take kindly to others bidding jobs low just to get work. I understand you need the work but you're not doing anyone any good going cheap. Secondly, this is tough work and the associated costs are substantial. You're only screwing yourself by going low and it's not a good business plan even to start. Charge accordingly and do a good job and you'll do fine. If they aren't willing to pay what your worth, move on. Being cheap does nothing but allow people to take advantage of you and that's just bad business. I'm not trying to be rude so please don't misunderstand.

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[xavier847]

I totally understand your point, no offense taken and I appreciate your response much more than the first. I'm not outrageously low, but definitely competitive. Like I said, the client wasn't willing to pay more than what she said the Insurance Company offered and I had bid well over that. I generally have a good idea of what jobs are worth in the current market and attempt to merely be competitive with respect for our industry. I know these topics are always touchy, but I'm dealing with a client that I feel may be reporting less than what the Insurance Company offered her and trying to keep the difference because the cost she stated seems low. It's a difficult situation where I don't want to insult the client, but feel that I'm being taken advantage. So, this is an attempt to reach out and find the insight on what manner to stand my ground.

 

[ATH]

Did she agree to the price before you started the work? Did you get it in writing? If not, is it above the amount ($500 in most states) that requires a written contract to be valid under your state's statute of frauds? You may be lucky to get a dime...

I'd explain that she has a problem with her insurance company...that shouldn't translate into a problem with you. It is likely in her policy that tree cleanup has a maximum payout and it is probably pretty low, but that should not be your problem. Perhaps offer to let her pay in installments over 3 months.

 

[Brian72]

I totally understand your point, no offense taken and I appreciate your response much more than the first. I'm not outrageously low, but definitely competitive. Like I said, the client wasn't willing to pay more than what she said the Insurance Company offered and I had bid well over that. I generally have a good idea of what jobs are worth in the current market and attempt to merely be competitive with respect for our industry. I know these topics are always touchy, but I'm dealing with a client that I feel may be reporting less than what the Insurance Company offered her and trying to keep the difference because the cost she stated seems low. It's a difficult situation where I don't want to insult the client, but feel that I'm being taken advantage. So, this is an attempt to reach out and find the insight on what manner to stand my ground.

I only do small odd jobs on the side so I can't really comment on your situation without knowing the facts but I can share some advice that I learned the hard way. Customers can either make it a great experience or a living hell. I bid some jobs low and took the hit but that was all on me. I jacked my prices up and have done very well so far. I've learned to just not deal with customers that complain about pricing and it's made my life and business so much better. I'm not rude about it but it's business and my rates are competitive. If Joe down the road can do it for $50, have him do it. It's actually given me a better customer base this way. My biggest thing is service! Return calls promptly, be neat, do the job as promised and be friendly. I've gotten more jobs than I can count simply because others didn't even return a phone call. Be reliable and honest and people will be glad to pay you more. I'm fairly new too so here's another important rule for me, I just don't take jobs that are too big for me. If you feel this lady is jerking you around, she probably is but sometimes the end result just isn't worth the fight. Only you can decide that. Sometimes I had to finish a crappy job for crappy people and just learn a lesson. All just typical newbie mistakes. I wish you all the luck.

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[BC WetCoast]

No signed contract, you're SOL. Especially on a $4000 job. (20 hrs @ $200/hr which is what we charge for storm work).

If she doesn't want to pay, tell her she can have her tree back with a load of chips on her driveway.

 

[Samcronkite]

Some insurance companies only pay the have the tree removed from the house. Cleaning up the mess is the homeowners responsibility.

 

[ATH]

Here is another thought...was that really a 20 hour job? (I am not going to say from one picture one way or the other...).

If it should have been a 4 hour job (with no clean up) then that is all the insurance company should be paying. Think about a vehicle repair. They ask for 3 estimates. If you go with the most expensive, you should not expect the insurance company to pay the full amount. The adjuster may have estimated the job differently than you did. See if you can figure out where they got their #.

 

[Brian72]

Here is another thought...was that really a 20 hour job? (I am not going to say from one picture one way or the other...).

If it should have been a 4 hour job (with no clean up) then that is all the insurance company should be paying. Think about a vehicle repair. They ask for 3 estimates. If you go with the most expensive, you should not expect the insurance company to pay the full amount. The adjuster may have estimated the job differently than you did. See if you can figure out where they got their #.

Very good advice. I'd definitely recommend anybody that deals with insurance claims to do some research and learn how the system works. I hated dealing with claims when I worked in a body shop. Some adjusters were good and others were just absolute trash that would fight you over a $20 piece of plastic trim.

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[david1332]

How much did you bid? And I can't see why that tree would take 40 man hours. Seems it should've been maybe a days work with a chipper. But everyone works at their own pace I guess

 

[xavier847]

The tree was resting on a car, so I had to limb everything small enough to lower it and not damage the car any further otherwise I'd be liable for that. Taking off enough weight to prop the limb that was resting on the car to cut it off of the car was the trickiest part. This was one of my most intricate jobs to date, so I was definitely taking my time. I ended up meeting with the client today and getting paid the Insurance Companies maximum payout for a fallen tree which was $1500. I bid $2000 for the job, and decided to work until I hit a wall where it wasn't worth my time to move forward. I got the tree off the car, cut the trunk down, hauled off the brush but left the heavy stuff.

[photo=medium]4794[/photo]
[photo=medium]4793[/photo]

 

[BC WetCoast]

You were worried about more damage to THAT car.

 

[david1332]

Dude they're gonna total that car. It would cost too much for body work lol.

But I understand what you're saying. Learn from this and use written contracts with specific terms, detailed prices amd SIGNATIRES AND DATES. Then they can't argue about the bill

 

[c5rulz]

I bid $2000 for the job, and decided to work until I hit a wall where it wasn't worth my time to move forward. I got the tree off the car, cut the trunk down, hauled off the brush but left the heavy stuff.

Wow doing that kind of work will really get your name out there and not in a good way.

 

[Brian72]

Wow doing that kind of work will really get your name out there and not in a good way.

My thoughts too. Even if you just got a few buddies to chop, load and remove it. A $500 hit sucks but it's very minor compared to a bad reputation. I'd definitely try to make it right. Word of mouth is either the best or worst advertising you will get and it's absolutely free.

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[xavier847]

The client and I ended on good terms, I had to explain that this job cost much more than the Maximum Payout that her Insurance Company was paying and that I gave her $2000 worth of labor for $1500. She was pleased with how well I cleaned up the site, and even had the sense to know that she was asking too much for the entirety of the tree to be removed at that price. If I could afford to please the world, I would, but I had hit a wall and have to have respect for myself.

As for further damaging the car, I imagined it would've been totaled, but I in no way wanted to be involved with the Auto Insurance Company, so I made sure to keep any damage from me on it.

 

[Brian72]

The client and I ended on good terms, I had to explain that this job cost much more than the Maximum Payout that her Insurance Company was paying and that I gave her $2000 worth of labor for $1500. She was pleased with how well I cleaned up the site, and even had the sense to know that she was asking too much for the entirety of the tree to be removed at that price. If I could afford to please the world, I would, but I had hit a wall and have to have respect for myself.

As for further damaging the car, I imagined it would've been totaled, but I in no way wanted to be involved with the Auto Insurance Company, so I made sure to keep any damage from me on it.

Glad it worked out well for you. I hope none of my posts came off as arrogant. Just trying to share some things that I learned. Good luck with the business.

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[BC WetCoast]

I sometimes wonder whether this mantra we have that a bad reputation will kill us. I've been doing this a while as an employee. We've done some piss poor jobs, we've pissed off clients, (we've also done lots of good/great work) but we still have lots of work. I agree that word of mouth is important as a positive sales tool, I'm not so sure that most customers bother to give a bad word of mouth.

 

[Brian72]

I agree to a certain extent but there really is no right or wrong answer. Every customer is different. Some are great and others will never be pleased no matter what you do. I will say that I seem to get better customers when I'm referred by previous customers. People skills are probably the hardest part of business.

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