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Federal Airtight 264CCL Questions

Discussion in 'Firewood, Heating and Wood Burning Equipment' started by bsearcey, Oct 6, 2009.

  1. bsearcey

    bsearcey ArboristSite Operative

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    Hi All,

    I'm a new wood stove owner and I have a question about my Federal Airtight 264CCL made by Dutchwest India LTD. WoodDoc has been a big help so far. I know he uses a FA 288, and it looks great.

    1. Does anyone out there have a manual for it or know where to find one? I've looked all over the net and can't find one for my particular model. I've found manuals for the Consolidated Dutchwest models, but these are for the stoves after they were bought out by Vermont Castings I believe and there were some slight modifications to the stove. To the best of my knowledge this unit was produced in 83.

    Thanks to All
     
  2. Wood Doctor

    Wood Doctor Edwin

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    I'll try to find mine -- 1987. If I can scan it, I will do it. It was at least 10 big pages and believe me, they don't write them for anything that way anymore. It was written by pros and in English. :popcorn:

    Good Grief, I found it. Here's the title:
    General Instructions Covering All Consolidated Dutchwest Stoves & Fireplace Inserts
    Version 6, a total of 20 pages. From 1982 to 2000, this company ran a class act in Plymouth, Massachusetts. I'm sure that all the phone numbers don't mean anything anymore, but most of these instructions are excellent and well written.

    Back in 1987, the 264CCL with standard features sold for $970, plus shipping and tax. It weighed 440 lb and was designed to heat areas from 9,000 to 13,000 cubic feet and generate 67,000 BTU/hr. Maximum burn time was rated at 11 hours and the stove could handle a 22" log. Efficiency was measured at 83%. Not too shabby.

    The Stove Buyer's Guide and the Installation Planner inserts that accompanied the 1987 catalog were classic manuscripts. Somebody who worked for this company literally wrote themselves to death. The catalog itself sold for $2.50. I've never seen anything written recently for any product that could match what these people put together 22 years ago.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2009
  3. bsearcey

    bsearcey ArboristSite Operative

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    Federal Airtight 264CCL

    Thanks Wood Doctor,

    Could you scan that manual for me? I seached it online and I found a manual titled: CONSOLIDATED DUTCHWEST STOVES & FIREPLACE INSERTS - Pre-90. Doesn't exactly match your title or your synopsis. I had already found that manual, but it did not seem to pertain to my stove exactly.

    Another issue that I've noticed with my stove is about the air controls. Everything that I've read (pre-90 manual and schematics on Vermont Castings and Black Swan Websites) and also by looking at the picture of your 288 says that these stoves (FA224, FA264, FA288) should have 3 air supply controls: 1-underfire-on ash tray door, 2-overfire-on side feed door, and 3-combustor air control-on side above side load door. Well my unit only has the underfire and the overfire controls. I don't have the third combustor control. What do you make of that? I'm pretty sure my unit was made in 83 because on the back plate with all the model info and UL # says the it was tested in 8/83. Could this be the reason? This is all getting really confusing. I'll try and post some pics later this evening to show what I'm talking about.

    Thanks for all your help
     
  4. Wood Doctor

    Wood Doctor Edwin

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    Secondary CC Valve

    It could be that they did not introduce the air control to the secondary combustion chamber (above the side loading door) until after 1983. You may wish to lift off the top cover plate and look inside the secondary combustion chamber. The air comes in from the left side.

    What your older model may have is air coming in from another source and that has no control valve. I don't think it's a big deal as long is air is getting there from somewhere. I usualy have that cranked wide open anyway and control the fire intensity with the other two valves.

    Where did you find that online manual? Is it a PDF? Can you post a link so that I can compare it with mine? If there is little difference, it would be pointless to scan 21 pages. Also, the print is rather small, so the scan may not do well.
     
  5. bsearcey

    bsearcey ArboristSite Operative

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    Pre-90 Manual

    I just found an identification guide for the FA stoves. It cleared up why I did not have the 3 combustor valve. Apparently from 84-86 that valve was not included on any of the models (I guess goes back as far a 83 in my case).

    Here is the link:
    http://www.discountstove.com/cdwidguide.html

    Here is a link to the Pre-1990 manual.
    http://rs.woodmanspartsplus.com/company_41/Manual_DWPre1990_EN4.pdf.pdf

    I have taken the top off of the stove in order to inspect and clean. The stove cement around the edge sealing the top to the sides cracked of course and alot of it was white/chalky. Do you recommend any particular brand so that I can reseal it?

    Thanks again Wood Doc.
     
  6. Wood Doctor

    Wood Doctor Edwin

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    Good News -- Same Manual

    That's the same manual that I have. You saved me 21 pages of scanning. It's actually better than mine, so you have me updated.

    Rutland makes a very good stove cement, and most home improvement centers carry it--Menards, Lowes, HD, or even Tractor Supply (TSC stores).
    [​IMG]

    Combine that with the fireproof rope sealer. I believe you can get a kit that contains the cement and the rope sealer. About every two years I scrape out the old rope and reseal all the doors and the top plate with new rope and cement. The stove will love you for that. ;)
     
  7. bsearcey

    bsearcey ArboristSite Operative

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    Gaskets

    Well glad I could be of some help to you with the manual. I called up a VC dealer in my area and they have all the gasket I need. Funny thing about that though. The cement he recommended for the gaskets is rated @ 450 degrees. Sounds a little low to me, but they are the professionals. Do you have any thoughts on that Doc?

    I think I'm giving up on finding a manual for my model. From everything I've seen in the manual I linked to, everything seems the same except for he combuster air inlet. And as you and every other FA user has said, each install is different and you have to play around with the air to get the right settings for you.

    I have the chimney inspector/sweep coming on Monday, so hopefully I'll get some more info on the stove and also about the best way to connect to my chimney.

    Thanks for all the help,
     
  8. bsearcey

    bsearcey ArboristSite Operative

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    Here we go!

    Crunch time is here. I have basically everything I need to get this stove in place. Stove is clean and ready for paint. Paints in. Liners in. Gaskets are in. Block off plate and mineral wool is here. All that is needed is to put the puzzle together. Still waiting on some furnace cement in caulk tubes to get in, but they should be here tomorrow. Installation will begin by this weekend. Here are some pics of the before for anyone interested. Keep watching.
     
  9. bsearcey

    bsearcey ArboristSite Operative

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    Quick Update

    I've gotten delayed a little bit. Found out that I had the SWINE FLU on Fri, but really not that big a deal. The worst it ever was for me was a sore throat. And that was only on Friday. Apparently I had symptons since around last Mon or Tues, I just that I had a cold. Anyway, I did take it a little easy Saturday so really didn't get anything accomplished.

    I got the liner down the chimney. Man was that easy. It was harder climbing up the ladder with the liner then actually putting it in though. It's definitely a 2 man job though. One person feeding and the other person holding the back end up as high as can go. I think all together it took about 20 mins to get the liner down (and that includes putting the ladder up).

    I was going to directly connect the base of the liner to the flue collar on the stove. However, I think I'm going to have to get an ovalized tee connection made up for it. The Federal Airtights have a pretty cool flue collar setup, in that, depending on how you attach the flue collar to the stove you either a top exit or rear exit. So herein lies my problem, if I vent to the rear there is no way I can get the ovalized flex liner to bend enough to connect to the flue collar without severly crimping it. I could vent to the top, but because of the angle that the liner is coming through the damper, I would have to push the stove futher into the fireplace to make the connection and then I would not be able to use the side load door.

    I think I'm going to have to rethink my block off plate. Once I got the liner installed I put the plate in and started trying to feed the liner through the hole I made, well that was a PITA. I had cut the hole in the block off plate dead center, but the liner was coming down at a different angle so the hole and liner didn't exactly match up. Now that the liner is in I can get some measurements and adjust the hole in the block off plate. I also think I going to try and attach it a different way. I was trying to use angle brakets, but that was a pain and I didn't like the way it held.

    I'll try and get some pics up today.
     
  10. bsearcey

    bsearcey ArboristSite Operative

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    Done

    I'm finally finished (except for the pieces that go over the convection holes in the corners), but she burns. Man this thing puts out heat. When the cat kicks on it is crazy hot. Since the begining of the Thanksgiving holiday I've run it everyday. Granted in VA it has not been cold really (I think we got to 40 last night) but I can certainly see the potential to heat the whole house with the stove. With the HVAC circulating fan on I've had temps at the registers upstairs at around 75. That's way hotter than the house ever is during this time of year. The only downside is that the living room is almost 90. I'm sure as the cold really sets in I'll be able to keep the temps a little more manageable by opening the windows. Hopefully I won't lose too much heat through the HVAC system since the duct work runs through the crawlspace and attic. If I can keep it in the 60's up stairs I'll consider it perfect.

    As a side note. When I was looking up stuff on the forums about this stove I saw alot of posts with people dogging these stoves (except for WoodDoc of course). I don't see it. This thing works great. It's easy to control and like I said puts out tremendous heat. I've got the smallest unit that was made and I'm heating an 1800 square foot house with it so far. I think thats pretty good. So for anyone else who may have an opportunity to get one I say go for it. The only real downside I can think of is getting parts. They seem to be pricey and some aren't even available.

    And by the way if anyone wants the coal grates or some 2" thick 3'x4' mineral wool insulation let me know. I'm sure we could work something out. Just send me a PM.

    So heres some pics.
     
  11. Wood Doctor

    Wood Doctor Edwin

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    Nice job, Brandon. Cold temperatures are on the way east and should get there by Thursday. We reached 21 F last night and the teens are on tap for Wednesday. It really creeps up on you. October was actually colder in NE than November. We also had no November snowfall at all, the first time in 25 years.

    Parts for Federal Airtight stoves are getting so scarce that I now make all my own in the shop and buy plate steel from a welder as need be. Last I heard, DiscountStove.Com is about the only outfit left that has any parts at all.

    About any 6" round cat combustor will work, such as those for Englander stoves, and I believe they are readily available for about $30 or less.

    Yes, these stoves are underrated and often criticized unfairly. Note that most sports cars are not very easy to drive, but good drivers won't part with them. Your color choice is truly unique. I had no idea that you could obtain a deep burgundy like that. I predict you will have a wonderful hobby through the years feeding this stove. I call mine "Jaws", because she will swallow just about anything.
    :yourock:
     
  12. bsearcey

    bsearcey ArboristSite Operative

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    Bring on the cold!

    Thanks Doc.

    Yeah. It's supposed to get to 35 here tonight. It's a great feeling to come into a house from the cold and get hit with the hot air from the stove and not the poor excuse for heat that comes from my heat pump.

    Black Swan also has the parts available for the stove and they also list the prices and usually a picture of the part. I found it a useful site when figureing out the stove. Fortunately for me my neighbor and father in law are both machinists, so between the two I think I'll be able to fabricate something if need be.

    You mentioned those Englander cats before and how cheap they are. I could not find them at all (at least not at that price). The cheapest I found is made by Condar for $100.

    The color of the stove is Mojave Red. It is a Stove Bright paint. Stove Bright has some great colors to choose from. I didn't want to go with the traditional black because the stove has become a focal point of the living room and we wanted it to look more like a piece of furniture than just a black box. The paint actually changes color when it reaches around 350. You can see in my burning pics how the upper front gets kind of burgundy (purpulish red), but the bottom stays the brick red color. Once the stove cools down it returns to the brick red color.

    Even if I left it black it would still look great. I really like the art decoish style of the stove. There really isn't that much of a difference between our stoves (mid 80s) and the new VC Fed Airs except that there is more glass on the doors now. Kind of says alot about the stove in my opinion.

    By the way. I sand blasted all the brass on the stove except dampers which I'll get those over X-mas. My pieces orginally looked pretty crappy. I think they must have been coated with something to make them shiny because they were kind of discolored and you could see where some of the coating was flaking off. The pieces look great now. Its a goldish color.
     
    WetBehindtheEar likes this.
  13. raybonz

    raybonz ArboristSite Operative

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    stove gasket etc. for FA264CCL CDW stove

    Lowes has 3/8" gasket with the high temp glue for under $7.00.. I just replaced my side load door gasket and there was enough to do it 2 times...I rarely open the front doors so I never replace those gaskets as they are like new.. FYI I have a 1988ish FA264CCL.. If you haven't been to www.********** you should check it out... Great forum there just like here cept more info on woodburning etc.. FYI most people hate these stoves but mine has run for over 20 yrs and only part I have replaced is the cast baffle under the cat and it cost me under $25.00.. Other than that this is the 2nd cat (1st cat came with stove)and it stilll goes catalytic quickly... One thing I have learned is these stoves HATE wood that is not dry! Back when I bought this stove I got a promo deal and paid $650.00 and that included the ash bin, log tote, gloves, firetool set and all the coal stuff I have never used!! Hell it even came with spare door latches etc that are still brand new! The only thing I don't use now is the woodtote because I can't find it lol... I heat my house 24/7 on 2.5-3 cords a yr (mostly oak) in southeast Mass. Not too shabby for a lousy stove!

    Ray
     
  14. raybonz

    raybonz ArboristSite Operative

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    Scotch Brite works well to remove the lacquer finish on the brass then you can shine it up to look like gold with Brasso... I do this if the weather allows me to cool the stove down.. My wife thinks I'm nuts and I probably am but the brass looks awesome lol!!!


    Ray
     
  15. Wood Doctor

    Wood Doctor Edwin

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    Ray, I chuck the brass knobs into my drill press. Then I spin sand them with 220 grit sandpaper. Nothing shines them up faster and better than that does. Give it a try. :greenchainsaw:
     
  16. raybonz

    raybonz ArboristSite Operative

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    Hey never thought of that! I just happen to have a drillpress down cellar too! They have some nice brass on these stoves most newer ones do not unless you pay lots extra for it.. Oddly they also gave us 3 brass handles when you can only use one at a time ... I rotate em once in a while.. I find that never seize is a good lube for the hinge pins and takes the heat really well and I also lube the threads on the brass dampers with it too... Thanx for the advice!

    Ray
     
  17. Wood Doctor

    Wood Doctor Edwin

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    About 1000 RPM is all you need. Anything faster than that is a waste. Don't worry about the threads. They are tough, so tighten the chuck normally. Get a nice smooth spin before you start. Take your time. It's a piece of cake. They will shine beautifully. :)
     
  18. Jason123

    Jason123 ArboristSite Lurker

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    federal airtight question

    Hello,
    I have a federal airtight 224 which is a smaller version of the 264. I just found an owners manual for it online and it looks like I am missing a part. It is called a "refractory package" and it is located directly above the cat. Does anyone know anything about this part? And if I need it to operate the stove or at least to operate the stove with the smoke going through the cat? I am not 100% sure that I am missing a part since the owners manual covers 1990-1993 and mine is an 1988, however everything seems to match mine exactly.

    Thanks,
    Jason
     
  19. Wood Doctor

    Wood Doctor Edwin

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    Directly above the cat? My 288 doesn't have one, just the heavy steel plate casting on the very top that holds the thermometer. If you remove the cat, you can look straight down into the firebox. Above the cat, there is nothing but air between it and the top steel plate casting.

    Welcome aboard, Jason.
     
  20. raybonz

    raybonz ArboristSite Operative

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    There is no refractory anything in my stove which is the same vintage as yours but the FA264CCL (Large Convection).. From all that I read refractory materials are what fails in the newer stoves and like Doc stated the only thing above my cat is the polished iron cook plate but there is a 1/4" rope gasket to seal the plate to the stovetop... The fact that these older stoves have no refractory mat'l's is probably why they last so long and need very few parts!

    Ray
     

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