Hello from BKVP

[Idahonative]

Some helpful quotes from the Blaze King manual:

*Pg. 23, Operating Instructions, #8: "Let the fire burn on a higher setting (on the thermostat) for 20-30 minutes, or until the fire is well established, then turn the thermostat to the desired setting. It is good burning practice to burn the stove on high for 20-30 mins after every refueling, this will help in cleaning off any residual build-ups and lessen the chance of accumulation."

*Pg. 23, Operating Instructions: "Put as much fuel into the stove as it will hold. Don't be afraid to fill it completely. With the Blaze King automatic thermostat, the wood will only burn at the rate set on the thermostat. Loading with a half load of fuel, and therefore reloading more often, causes the combustor to lose efficiency and may result in a faster creosote deposit."

*Pg. 24, Operating Instructions: "Should you burn the stove on a very low setting for extended periods of time, you will begin to see creosote deposits forming on the glass door. To remove these deposits, simply run the stove on "High" for a short time, approximately 30 minutes. The "High" setting will burn off most of the deposits."

*Pg. 26, Creosote: "At stack temperature below 120*C (250* F), the creosote will condense out of the gasses (smoke). Once a chimney connector becomes heavily coated with creosote, the only safe way to remove it is mechanically with a proper chimney cleaner or brush. A combination of wet fuel and poor operating procedure may necessitate weekly cleaning to remove creosote buildup. Remember - the hotter the fire the less creosote...We recommend that each day a small intense fire be built, preferably in the morning. This daily practice should burn out the small deposits of creosote before they build to a dangerous level. The combustion air inlet should be opened at least 30 minutes by turning the thermostat up in the morning and evening. NEVER "burn out" large deposits of more than one days accumulation."

*Pg. 26, Creosote, #4: "Operate the stove on a higher temperature setting for the half hour after reloading."

*Pg. 28, Maintenance, Cat Cleaning: "TIP: A nice hot fire will usually prove to be the best method of cleaning the combustor of deposits."

*Pg. 29, Maintenance, Door Glass Cleaning: "The best way to keep the glass clean is to leave the stove on high burn for a period of time after each reloading. The moisture which is driven from a new load of wood contributes much of the creosote on the inside of the glass. Removing that moisture at the beginning of the burn cycle helps to keep the glass clean. Leaving the thermostat on a higher setting for 30 minutes to an hour before turning to low for an overnight burn will also help.



From the glass to the cat to the box to the flue, there is a reoccurring theme here: Daily burn offs help to keep everything clean. My dad taught me at nine years old how important daily burn offs were to operating our wood stove safely (concerning creosote). That was before I even knew what Blaze King was. I just thought that was the way everyone did it. It wasn't until I was an adult, burning my own stove, that I realized doing it this way was controversial amongst the general wood burning population.

The only thing I would caution is if you have an unusually high stack. Maybe going through two stories. The higher the stack the harder it will be to raise the flue temp (at the higher level) sufficient enough to burn accumulation. Or if you have bends in your stack. I personally would not install a wood stove with bends in the stack.

Just my input from my experience. I know this subject stirs up a lot of emotion because there are deeply entrenched ways of burning that have been passed down from generation to generation. I believe BK is spot on with their suggestions concerning creosote. Of course, they also have the "lawyer" language in their manuals as well.

 

[bkvp]

We are not suggesting high burns with the bypass open! These recommendations are to keep the stove inner workings clean.....not a chimney.

 

[HarvestMan]

EDIT: I got banned from another site when I took the position (against one of the staff members) that daily burn offs should be part of every wood burners daily routine. I got told such a thing is an "old wives tale" and "doesn't work" and that it was dangerous and irresponsible to suggest such a thing to other members (as part of flue maintenance). I can tell you with 100% certainty daily burn offs not only work, but make burning wood much safer. That could be why Blaze King recommends something similar in their owners manuals.

Since you like brutal honesty, here is some for you. You got banned because too many people thought you to be a trouble making @sshole.

What you simply can't see is you are not just a cheerleader for BK ... that would be fine. You go out of your way to criticize other brands and agitate the cheerleaders of other brands. I find it all rather entertaining myself, but clearly the moderators do not.

 

[Idahonative]

We are not suggesting high burns with the bypass open! These recommendations are to keep the stove inner workings clean.....not a chimney.

We aren't doing daily burn offs with the bypass open. Bypass is closed and cat temp is allowed to reach the upper limit (raising the flue temp) before the thermostat is set for the day.

 

[Idahonative]

Since you like brutal honesty, here is some for you. You got banned because too many people thought you to be a trouble making @sshole.

What you simply can't see is you are not just a cheerleader for BK ... that would be fine. You go out of your way to criticize other brands and agitate the cheerleaders of other brands. I find it all rather entertaining myself, but clearly the moderators do not.

You must be talking about the Woodstock discussion. I almost forgot about that...but I still stand behind everything I said. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[Idahonative]

We are not suggesting high burns with the bypass open! These recommendations are to keep the stove inner workings clean.....not a chimney.

Wasn't this paragraph written into the Blaze King manual specifically addressing the chimney?:

*Pg. 26, Creosote: "At stack temperature below 120*C (250* F), the creosote will condense out of the gasses (smoke). Once a chimney connector becomes heavily coated with creosote, the only safe way to remove it is mechanically with a proper chimney cleaner or brush. A combination of wet fuel and poor operating procedure may necessitate weekly cleaning to remove creosote buildup. Remember - the hotter the fire the less creosote...We recommend that each day a small intense fire be built, preferably in the morning. This daily practice should burn out the small deposits of creosote before they build to a dangerous level. The combustion air inlet should be opened at least 30 minutes by turning the thermostat up in the morning and evening. NEVER "burn out" large deposits of more than one days accumulation."

 

[bkvp]

Wasn't this paragraph written into the Blaze King manual specifically addressing the chimney?:

*Pg. 26, Creosote: "At stack temperature below 120*C (250* F), the creosote will condense out of the gasses (smoke). Once a chimney connector becomes heavily coated with creosote, the only safe way to remove it is mechanically with a proper chimney cleaner or brush. A combination of wet fuel and poor operating procedure may necessitate weekly cleaning to remove creosote buildup. Remember - the hotter the fire the less creosote...We recommend that each day a small intense fire be built, preferably in the morning. This daily practice should burn out the small deposits of creosote before they build to a dangerous level. The combustion air inlet should be opened at least 30 minutes by turning the thermostat up in the morning and evening. NEVER "burn out" large deposits of more than one days accumulation."

This is referring to firebox accumulation not chimney. We can clarify...however we repeat several places that once the cat is active, close the by pass. Another reason to burn hot for a bit after a reload is to better deal with fuel moisture. Hotter temps deal with the water in the fuel more effectively.

 

[NSMaple1]

Wasn't this paragraph written into the Blaze King manual specifically addressing the chimney?:

*Pg. 26, Creosote: "At stack temperature below 120*C (250* F), the creosote will condense out of the gasses (smoke). Once a chimney connector becomes heavily coated with creosote, the only safe way to remove it is mechanically with a proper chimney cleaner or brush. A combination of wet fuel and poor operating procedure may necessitate weekly cleaning to remove creosote buildup. Remember - the hotter the fire the less creosote...We recommend that each day a small intense fire be built, preferably in the morning. This daily practice should burn out the small deposits of creosote before they build to a dangerous level. The combustion air inlet should be opened at least 30 minutes by turning the thermostat up in the morning and evening. NEVER "burn out" large deposits of more than one days accumulation."

I would read that as possibly addressing the chimney connector (stove pipe), but not the chimney.

 

[Idahonative]

I would read that as possibly addressing the chimney connector (stove pipe), but not the chimney.

Stove pipe and chimney are the same thing. In fact, words like chimney, stack, connector, pipe, flue...all mean the same thing. They are the means for the gasses to exit the home. Every one of those words has the meaning "pipe"...NOT "firebox".

Strange (to me) that anyone would read that paragraph and take the position that it WAS NOT written specifically for the flue.

 

[Idahonative]

This is referring to firebox accumulation not chimney. We can clarify...however we repeat several places that once the cat is active, close the by pass. Another reason to burn hot for a bit after a reload is to better deal with fuel moisture. Hotter temps deal with the water in the fuel more effectively.

Again, that is what we are doing. Once the cat probe is in the active range, the bypass is closed and allowed (during burn off) to reach the upper limit. I'm guessing the flue temp is around 1000 degrees by the time the cat probe hits this upper limit. We don't have great instruments like you but our Condar pipe thermometer is reading approximately 500 degrees (measured 5" above stove top, outside of single pipe reducer), so times that by 2 for inside temp. That 1000 degree exhaust temp is what is keeping the flue clean (with the by pass closed) during the burn off. Everything stays within the "safe" zone on the cat probe through all this.

 

[Idahonative]

Notice at the bottom of the page BK is calling the pipe (from the stove top to the ceiling of the home) the "chimney connector":

 

[brenndatomu]

So... my attention has been called to this thread by brenndatomu tagging me

...figured, we talkin 'boutcha, no sense in doin it behind your back. Besides, I don't recall you addressing cat stoves before. Surely you ain't disputin that those actually work?

 

[Idahonative]

...figured, we talkin 'boutcha, no sense in doin it behind your back. Besides, I don't recall you addressing cat stoves before. Surely you ain't disputin that those actually work?

If I had time, and could afford it, I'd fly Spidey out here to stay with us for a while this winter. He would leave a BELIEVER.

 

[Whitespider]

Surely you ain't disputin that those actually work?

No sir... I won't dispute that... I have no experience with one.
*

 

[KiwiBro]

This is what Woodstock did with the Ideal Stove. Put 25 units in the field and let a test group point out all the performance attributes, both positive and negative. Then make the changes, go to a lab and test the unit and take them to the market place. We do this to keep consumers from becoming guinea pigs.

If only every manufacturer respected consumers like this. Good for you.

 

[Del_]

No sir... I won't dispute that... I have no experience with one.
*

From your writings here you've never had the experience of running any epa approved wood stove correctly.

My first Cat stove experience was in a Riteway Model 37 back in 82.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I haven't had any issues with burning how I described above.

The wood is dry, 2-3 years cut and stacked.

I think what it boils down to is no install is going to be the same as another.

Now in the dead of winter I do fill the stove full and dial it to around 1-1.5. It works perfect at single digits or colder... real strong draft, the house needs that much heat and all works out.
In the area of 20*s, I may or may not do a full load, all depending on house temp. It works out better to do 2 smaller fires than one big fire with it smoldering.

In the 30s I don't use the blower and only load a couple pieces of softwood, otherwise I could easily make the house 100*. Usually only need to do 1 fire a day.

None of that really set in stone, but I've had the stove for 5 years and I've got it pretty well sorted out. Still on the original catalyst, not really sure how long they last.

Wow, that may be your experience but it differs greatly from ours. Sounds like a wood problem and/or possibly a draft problem the way you described it. And your problem with cresote??? Again, sounds to me like a wood problem (^moisture). Do you do daily burn offs? A 15-20 minute daily burn off will keep things nice and clean. Haven't touched the flue with anything yet except hot gasses once a day and don't ever plan to. Matter a fact (& I got banned on another site for saying this) between my parents house and mine, we have been burning for 35 years. In that time, neither of us has EVER cleaned, or hired someone to clean our flues. I realize that is a controversial thing to say but it is the truth. No matter the name brand of the stove, everyone should practice DAILY BURN OFFS.

DISCLAIMER: Practicing daily burn offs is an ALL OR NOTHING thing. If you are gonna do it, you have to do it everyday without fail and you have to start with a clean flue. You can't do it whenever you feel like it. That is a recipe for a chimney fire. You have to be religious about it.

And I strongly disagree with your statement: "You can't just fill the stove to the gunnels and choke it right down expecting miracles". The auto damper on the Blaze Kings IS the miracle in the way they function. We fill ours once per day (with pine), do a 15-20 minute burn off, set the damper and forget it for another 24 hrs. Not once has our stove failed to provide consistent heat in relation to where we had the damper set. It has been flawless. It is the closest thing you can get to a thermostatically controlled gas furnace without having a gas furnace IMO.

EDIT: I got banned from another site when I took the position (against one of the staff members) that daily burn offs should be part of every wood burners daily routine. I got told such a thing is an "old wives tale" and "doesn't work" and that it was dangerous and irresponsible to suggest such a thing to other members (as part of flue maintenance). I can tell you with 100% certainty daily burn offs not only work, but make burning wood much safer. That could be why Blaze King recommends something similar in their owners manuals.

 

[brenndatomu]

I was thinking that I heard cat stoves can be a real bugger with puffbacks when turning down the dial? (seems to me it was across all brands)
That would turn me off...I hate a puffback, just about enough to make me go back to fossil fuel if it happens more than about once per year. Hate having the house smell like a rustic old cabin, and the wife has long hair, she doesn't go for campfire smellin hair too well either.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I was thinking that I heard cat stoves can be a real bugger with puffbacks when turning down the dial? (seems to me it was across all brands)
That would turn me off...I hate a puffback, just about enough to make me go back to fossil fuel if it happens more than about once per year. Hate having the house smell like a rustic old cabin, and the wife has long hair, she doesn't go for campfire smellin hair too well either.

My stove will do it if I turn it down too early and the wood didn't get a full chance to "burn in". Sometimes with enough force it will make the bypass door clank.
It might happen a few times a heating season (out of 6+ months of the stove running)

 

[Idahonative]

Not to be rude, but birch is 23.6mbtu per cord. It's right in line with most other "good" firewood.
Not sure I understand how that's "crappy"?

You could send me all your "crappy" birch. Even the poorer types of birch still rate above 20 mbtu (black birch @26.8 mbtu, although not native in AK), far better than the pine we are burning @ around 17 mbtu (& we are happy burning it). Even those poorer types still rate right there with Douglas Fir on the btu chart. Not sure why "residents in Fairbanks line up to pay $300 for energy logs shipped up to AK just so they can burn Douglas Fir". Heck, I wouldn't line up for energy logs if they were free.