Help with first bid

[JackieRedShoes]

Hi there,

I'm going to tackle my first "side work" tree job soon, and it's suddenly become apparent that I don't really have any experience pricing tree removals. A buddy I met in college just bought a house and he has some trees he wants down, and some of them are pretty big and a bit technical. I'm currently a one man operation with climbing gear, ropes, a rope come along and 2 Husky saws, and I'll be making an air cannon for throw bags soon, and I've already told him that I can get the wood on the ground safely and leave it in manageable pieces but I can't remove the wood from his property. He lives in MA.

With that information and some pictures, I'd love some ideas of at least a starting point or some ballpark figures of a price. I'm going to bid by the tree, not the hour.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Del_]

Looks like trimming is all that is needed.

Those trees are an asset so do your buddy a favor and bring him up to speed.

 

[no tree to big]

Oh lord....

R u hauling brush? Or leaving everything?
Any particular reason he's cutting down every tree?


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[Jed1124]

How much are you worth per hour × how long each tree will take = price per tree.

I'm with Del though, don't remove assets.

 

[JackieRedShoes]

I'm going to have my buddy pull on some ropes for me and crank the powr puller, so I won't be totally alone.

I haven't seen them in person yet, and those big hardwoods will leave a ton of wood and I told him I can't get rid of it for him. I'm also not sure what sort of anchor points are nearby, if any, so there's a chance I won't do them. I at least know not to bite off more than I can chew.

 

[no tree to big]

Again are you responsible for the brush? There is a huge difference in leave everything and just leave logs....

It don't look like those are easy removals I'm talkin like you need to go cut pice by piece not go crank on a winch... looks like 4 man job 3 man min with people who are experienced! You don't want a rope man who don't know what he's doing!

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[gorman]

I would start a wee bit smaller with side work if I were you.

 

[JackieRedShoes]

Not responsible for the brush. And if when I get there it looks like too much for me I won't do it. I at least figure the tall skinny pines are pretty simple

 

[no tree to big]

I'm not sure you would be helping your buddy at all by cutting anything and leaving huge piles of crap everywhere. if you cut and pile it leaves a big ugly nasty mess for someone else to clean up! There is no way he can do anything with that much material so if you cut and pile then he hires somebody to haul debris it'll end up costing him more then just calling a company in the first place!

It happens to us all the time we bid a big nasty tree at 4k they freak find a guy like you to come cut it for less then 1k then call us back for a price to haul the nasty tangled mess thinking it's gonna cost like 500 bucks but when we give a price that's the same as our original bid they can't figure it out. A day to remove, chip, and haul as it comes down or a day to fight the pile it's still the same man hours.

Now if you can remove then stack and mske nice piles then find a guy to come out with a grapple and brush load it all that would be one thing but find the grapple first!

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[jefflovstrom]

I'm going to have my buddy pull on some ropes for me and crank the powr puller, so I won't be totally alone.

I haven't seen them in person yet, and those big hardwoods will leave a ton of wood and I told him I can't get rid of it for him. I'm also not sure what sort of anchor points are nearby, if any, so there's a chance I won't do them. I at least know not to bite off more than I can chew.

Yeah, I saw the same post you put on TB,
I answered over there and my answer is the same here.
Jeff

 

[JackieRedShoes]

Yeah, first I'm going to talk with him about why he wants them down, and it might end up that I just prune instead of remove some or all.

I also don't know if he realizes how much wood would be left on his property if all of those trees do end up being removed, or if he has any plans for it. I made it clear that I cannot dispose of it, but will do my best to at least cut it into manageable pieces and stack it.

He lives about 3 hours away from me, and I'm going to shoot down to his place over the weekend to look at the job, and quite possibly just hang out and catch up with him.

I'm going to look into getting a small business startup loan soon, so I can afford liability insurance (I've made it clear that should anything go wrong with this job it would have to go under his homeowners insurance) and some other stuff to be able to do tree work on the side. I lost my job a few weeks ago and the Mrs. wrecked one of our vehicles, and we have an 8 month old and a 2 1/2 year old. I've had some job offers already and a few more interviews today and tomorrow that are promising, but if I can do some tree work on my own I can afford to take my time to find the right job, instead of the first job.

 

[gorman]

His ho insurance wouldn't cover you or tree work gone bad.

 

[Zale]

From what you have described about your own ability, I would suggest you pass on this one. Lots of obstacles and rigging involved for a one man show. Your friend helping you doesn't count. Prune them and call it good.

 

[BuckmasterStumpGrinding]

Hauled off and cleaned up it looks like about 3k to me. Get him to get bids from other companies and see if your expenses can be covered by the price of the job in your area. Ask him to give you an advance to buy insurance, a trailer, dump fees, grinder rental, and help. You might come close to breaking even or even a little ahead and you will be in business. If he is really your friend he might be willing to help you get started on your own.

Whatever you do make sure you know what you are doing. That job would take me 3-5 days and I would make money on it. Some companies would take 2 weeks and lose money. Some startup companies would get started and realize they can't handle the work and hire me to finish the job. If there is any chance you might end up in one of the last two categories you should go get a 5k signature loan before the job starts so you can have the cash on hand to get the job done and keep from screwing your friend.

 

[Jim Timber]

Yeah, first I'm going to talk with him about why he wants them down, and it might end up that I just prune instead of remove some or all.

I also don't know if he realizes how much wood would be left on his property if all of those trees do end up being removed, or if he has any plans for it. I made it clear that I cannot dispose of it, but will do my best to at least cut it into manageable pieces and stack it.

He lives about 3 hours away from me, and I'm going to shoot down to his place over the weekend to look at the job, and quite possibly just hang out and catch up with him.

I'm going to look into getting a small business startup loan soon, so I can afford liability insurance (I've made it clear that should anything go wrong with this job it would have to go under his homeowners insurance) and some other stuff to be able to do tree work on the side. I lost my job a few weeks ago and the Mrs. wrecked one of our vehicles, and we have an 8 month old and a 2 1/2 year old. I've had some job offers already and a few more interviews today and tomorrow that are promising, but if I can do some tree work on my own I can afford to take my time to find the right job, instead of the first job.

I got quoted for doing stump grinding and my agent said it's the same policy as general tree service. Based on 25K a year in sales (part time - first year might not even come close to that), it was under $800/yr and he'd break it down monthly for me (so under a hundred a month). If you can't swing that without a loan, you're not ready to run your own show.

That covered my tractor (what I use to grind with), trailer, and truck while going to/from the site, and I think a 2M umbrella for liability.

Get some insurance quotes. It might not be as bad as you think.

 

[JackieRedShoes]

I got quoted for doing stump grinding and my agent said it's the same policy as general tree service. Based on 25K a year in sales (part time - first year might not even come close to that), it was under $800/yr and he'd break it down monthly for me (so under a hundred a month). If you can't swing that without a loan, you're not ready to run your own show.

That covered my tractor (what I use to grind with), trailer, and truck while going to/from the site, and I think a 2M umbrella for liability.

Get some insurance quotes. It might not be as bad as you think.

Yeah that would definitely work for me. Since posting this and reading all of your replies I've been looking into obtaining a loan or line of credit to get insurance, among other things.

Thanks!!!

 

[Jim Timber]

If you're going to hire anyone, you need workers comp insurance, and that one's going to hurt the wallet. Also remember you need to pay the full ride on your social security taxes (not just half like an employee), and 50% of your employee's SS taxes. Best to get an accountant early.

 

[no tree to big]

Dude you don't need credit for an insurance policy 800 bucks and my agent only needed like 150 up front

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[jefflovstrom]

His ho insurance wouldn't cover you or tree work gone bad.

In California the HO is the general contractor if he hires an uninsured worker,
Jeff

 

[Jim Timber]

I'd think that law is in place to get the insurance companies off the hook and able to say "sucks to be you" instead of "here's your check".

My agent tried to get me to charge my neighbor "nominal" rent just to make a commercial relationship exist to get them out of having to cover the neighbor's stuff and subsequently anything of mine as well on my policy (as it's issued). Instead, I recognized what they were doing and told the neighbor to vacate immediately.