That's it right there..........................................Good Old Nick!
HF Chain Grinder Thread
- Thread starter Philbert
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The Three Amigos!
Started some side-by-side comparisons of these three grinders today with smaller (Oregon type 90, 3/8 low pro, narrow kerf) chain.
General Impressions
All of these are light duty machines - they will not stand up to heavy use or abuse, but could hold up to careful use. Each of these could be used to make a chain sharper and more serviceable. Could be a good choice for a casual user. The practice chain I used today had a number of rocked cutters that cleaned up well. Could be used to occasionally clean up rocked chains before final filing.
The quality of these three is also modest out of the box. I spent a bit of time on each cleaning up moldings, shimming some parts, bushing the vise clamping cable on the HF one; mounting them on bases; etc. They are not as well made as the Oregon 511 type grinders, do not have as much power, have smaller diameter wheels, and limited options for chain angles (top plate angle only is adjustable; grinder head tilt is fixed; no vise tilt option). This means that a user has to be content with 'standard' angles (e.g. 30°/60°/0°). Cleaning out the gullet was also more difficult with limited tilt options and only a 1/8" wheel. I did not get as smooth a grind, or as consistent cutters, as with the larger grinder, but did get edges that would cut,
I did try to mount a 3/16" wheel on the the two 'side pivot' grinders (after performing a ring test!!!). It fit on one, but not the other. I don't know if the variation is in the wheels (arbor hole was slightly smaller than the stock ones) or between the grinders. Might work with a different brand of wheel.
Note the small, sheet metal screws that hold the wheel guards on some grinders. I am concerned how well these will hold up after multiple wheel changes. The design of some grinders would allow these holes to be drilled through and replaced with a screw and nut, if stripped out. Others are blind threaded and don't allow this.
Specific comments follow.
Philbert
Started some side-by-side comparisons of these three grinders today with smaller (Oregon type 90, 3/8 low pro, narrow kerf) chain.
General Impressions
All of these are light duty machines - they will not stand up to heavy use or abuse, but could hold up to careful use. Each of these could be used to make a chain sharper and more serviceable. Could be a good choice for a casual user. The practice chain I used today had a number of rocked cutters that cleaned up well. Could be used to occasionally clean up rocked chains before final filing.
The quality of these three is also modest out of the box. I spent a bit of time on each cleaning up moldings, shimming some parts, bushing the vise clamping cable on the HF one; mounting them on bases; etc. They are not as well made as the Oregon 511 type grinders, do not have as much power, have smaller diameter wheels, and limited options for chain angles (top plate angle only is adjustable; grinder head tilt is fixed; no vise tilt option). This means that a user has to be content with 'standard' angles (e.g. 30°/60°/0°). Cleaning out the gullet was also more difficult with limited tilt options and only a 1/8" wheel. I did not get as smooth a grind, or as consistent cutters, as with the larger grinder, but did get edges that would cut,
I did try to mount a 3/16" wheel on the the two 'side pivot' grinders (after performing a ring test!!!). It fit on one, but not the other. I don't know if the variation is in the wheels (arbor hole was slightly smaller than the stock ones) or between the grinders. Might work with a different brand of wheel.
Note the small, sheet metal screws that hold the wheel guards on some grinders. I am concerned how well these will hold up after multiple wheel changes. The design of some grinders would allow these holes to be drilled through and replaced with a screw and nut, if stripped out. Others are blind threaded and don't allow this.
Specific comments follow.
Philbert
Some Grinder Specific Comments
Infinity (old style Harbor Freight) (Post#134 )
'Side pivot'; Re-positionable lever clamp; rated 80 Watts/4,800 RPM
I like this one the most of this group. It is the simplest design with the fewest number of moving parts. The re-positionable lever is easy to use, and holds the cutters pretty secure. It allowed the best visibility of the grinding operation. The chain pawl is pretty light, and might need to be shimmed a bit more to stabilize it. I could see maybe keeping this one as a 'field' grinder, possibly run off a vehicle inverter.
Harbor Freight (Post #8)
'Side pivot'; bicycle brake vise clamp; rated 90 Watts/4,200 RPM
Despite working on the clamping lever, cable, and vise, it is still sloppy to use. I had to check each time to make sure that the cutter and clamp seated correctly. As another user noted, it also affects your hand position when you have to operate the brake as well as lower the motor/wheel. It was fast to lock/unlock. Also, as noted before, the handle interferes with the visibility of the grinding operation.
Worksite (Post #118)
'Front pivot'; Threaded knob vise clamp; rated 130 Watts/3,000 RPM
I found this grinder the most awkward to use. This might be because it is so much different from others I have used, and I might change my mind as I get more accustomed to it. It has the most powerful motor of the three. It might be OK for a patient user.
Each cutter has to be locked in place, and released, with 2 - 3 turns of a threaded knob. The chain is supposed to be pulled backwards, against the pawl and the direction of the cutters, which is counter-intuitive. Even then, the chain did not slide smoothly through the vise. I may try to disassemble the vise and smooth/bevel the edges of the clamping plates to see if that makes a difference. The knob to lock/unlock the vise rotation is recessed under the base and hard to reach.
I found this grinder difficult to set up because the cutter is obscured as the head is lowered, and the adjustments are not very precise. Accurate depth control is the most difficult. Not only was it hard to see the cutters when setting them up and while grinding, but it was hard to inspect them afterwards, to see if they were ground correctly. Especially the Right side cutters. I used a dental mirror to help, but it still was difficult to tell if I got an accurate or complete grind.
I will try these again with some larger pitch chains, and possibly, with some additional tweaking.
Philbert
Infinity (old style Harbor Freight) (Post#134 )
'Side pivot'; Re-positionable lever clamp; rated 80 Watts/4,800 RPM
I like this one the most of this group. It is the simplest design with the fewest number of moving parts. The re-positionable lever is easy to use, and holds the cutters pretty secure. It allowed the best visibility of the grinding operation. The chain pawl is pretty light, and might need to be shimmed a bit more to stabilize it. I could see maybe keeping this one as a 'field' grinder, possibly run off a vehicle inverter.
Harbor Freight (Post #8)
'Side pivot'; bicycle brake vise clamp; rated 90 Watts/4,200 RPM
Despite working on the clamping lever, cable, and vise, it is still sloppy to use. I had to check each time to make sure that the cutter and clamp seated correctly. As another user noted, it also affects your hand position when you have to operate the brake as well as lower the motor/wheel. It was fast to lock/unlock. Also, as noted before, the handle interferes with the visibility of the grinding operation.
Worksite (Post #118)
'Front pivot'; Threaded knob vise clamp; rated 130 Watts/3,000 RPM
I found this grinder the most awkward to use. This might be because it is so much different from others I have used, and I might change my mind as I get more accustomed to it. It has the most powerful motor of the three. It might be OK for a patient user.
Each cutter has to be locked in place, and released, with 2 - 3 turns of a threaded knob. The chain is supposed to be pulled backwards, against the pawl and the direction of the cutters, which is counter-intuitive. Even then, the chain did not slide smoothly through the vise. I may try to disassemble the vise and smooth/bevel the edges of the clamping plates to see if that makes a difference. The knob to lock/unlock the vise rotation is recessed under the base and hard to reach.
I found this grinder difficult to set up because the cutter is obscured as the head is lowered, and the adjustments are not very precise. Accurate depth control is the most difficult. Not only was it hard to see the cutters when setting them up and while grinding, but it was hard to inspect them afterwards, to see if they were ground correctly. Especially the Right side cutters. I used a dental mirror to help, but it still was difficult to tell if I got an accurate or complete grind.
I will try these again with some larger pitch chains, and possibly, with some additional tweaking.
Philbert
My old 'Nick' looks better an better compared to the newer offerings.
Worksite grinder chain groove.
I noted that the 3/8 low profile, narrow kerf chain did not feed smoothly through the vise groove on this grinder. So I took it apart and beveled/smoothed any parts of the clamping mechanism that might cause it to hang up. Turns out it is the actual width of the groove (top photo) - around 0.120 inches.
The tie straps of 3/8 low profile (middle photo) and .325 narrow kerf chain jam up in the groove (notice how chain sinks in up to rivets). Full sized .325 (bottom photo) and larger chain rides on tie straps, and slides easily in both directions. I suppose some type of shims could be fitted to support the tie straps of the narrower chain. Might be different on other brands or models of this style grinder, but its designed into this one.
Philbert
I noted that the 3/8 low profile, narrow kerf chain did not feed smoothly through the vise groove on this grinder. So I took it apart and beveled/smoothed any parts of the clamping mechanism that might cause it to hang up. Turns out it is the actual width of the groove (top photo) - around 0.120 inches.
The tie straps of 3/8 low profile (middle photo) and .325 narrow kerf chain jam up in the groove (notice how chain sinks in up to rivets). Full sized .325 (bottom photo) and larger chain rides on tie straps, and slides easily in both directions. I suppose some type of shims could be fitted to support the tie straps of the narrower chain. Might be different on other brands or models of this style grinder, but its designed into this one.
Philbert
Bret4207
ArboristSite Guru
I have a "Nick the Grinder" too. I think I got it from Northern Tool 8-9 years back. Works okay for what I do with it.
Duty Cycle Surprise!
Thought that this was interesting. Looking for the Amps rating on a chain grinder today at Menard's: Duty Cycle is 2 minutes 'ON' 8 minutes 'OFF'.
20% sounds like a cheap welder. On a 0.8 Amp grinder it sounds like the motor was designed for 'AA' batteries!
Philbert
Thought that this was interesting. Looking for the Amps rating on a chain grinder today at Menard's: Duty Cycle is 2 minutes 'ON' 8 minutes 'OFF'.
20% sounds like a cheap welder. On a 0.8 Amp grinder it sounds like the motor was designed for 'AA' batteries!
Philbert
mt.stalker
ArboristSite Guru
These grinders require so much attention to detail, to keep the cutters length the same , adjusting the angle constantly , holding the chain still with left hand , yadda yadda yadda , and still you end up with a chain that's slower and dulls quicker . Proper filing by hand is much quicker and easier after every tank full . Keep those hooks sharp !!! Flock , you can't even get a good hook with grinding 
Bret4207
ArboristSite Guru
You're right stalker. But when Joe Homeowner rocks his chain cutting down that "huge" 12 foot tall soft maple in his yards with his Walmart saw and brings you the chain, it gets the job done so you can finish up with a file.
smokey7
jack of a lot ace of a few
Ok so i finally got around to using my old style hf grinder. I got it from the cristmas giving thread. The orange one with a lever lock system. I took the back stop for the cutter stop i flipped it up and made a 16 ga piece a total of 1/2" wide by 1" long. The 1" goes long ways with the existing stop, then tapped it and drilled for 4-40 screws, to contact either cutter right or left. Mine wanted to slip off the left hand ones. This is the first change i found it needed right away
Photos? We like pictures!
Thanks.
Philbert
Thanks.
Philbert
smokey7
jack of a lot ace of a few
I will try to get pictures of it this evening going to have to clean it off it works great
Mine is sinful dirty. Trip to the laundry tub in order.
Grinding Wheel Variability
I want to mount a 3/16 inch thickness wheel on the HF grinders, for .325 and standard 3/8 pitch chain. I found a few wheels, different brands: some a few dollars each, some $10 - $12 each, some $26 - almost the cost of the grinders!!! But I was surprised by the variability between grinders, and grinding wheels, all labeled '7/8 inch arbor'.
Some wheels fit on one grinder, but not the other. Some wheels had a very sloppy fit. With a dial caliper I roughly measured as much as 3/64" difference in arbor hole diameters between different wheels. Some were not quite round. I could sand/grind the larger plastic arbor on one grinder down to the diameter of the smaller one, but then the larger arbor wheels won't fit right. I could try to shim/bush the larger diameter holes, but this would not be very convenient when changing wheels for different chains.
Some of this variation can be attributed to the quality of these tools and accessories. Combined with the screws on the wheel guards, users should probably not expect to frequently change grinding wheels. Maybe at this price, they buy one grinder for each size wheel?
I have not experienced this problem on larger grinders using Oregon, Tecomec, or Molemab branded wheels. The smaller Oregon 310 grinder, due Spring 2015, comes with both 1/8 and 3/16 wheels (not sure if standard or as accessories) - so they must have addressed this consistency, at least with their branded accessories.
Philbert
I want to mount a 3/16 inch thickness wheel on the HF grinders, for .325 and standard 3/8 pitch chain. I found a few wheels, different brands: some a few dollars each, some $10 - $12 each, some $26 - almost the cost of the grinders!!! But I was surprised by the variability between grinders, and grinding wheels, all labeled '7/8 inch arbor'.
Some wheels fit on one grinder, but not the other. Some wheels had a very sloppy fit. With a dial caliper I roughly measured as much as 3/64" difference in arbor hole diameters between different wheels. Some were not quite round. I could sand/grind the larger plastic arbor on one grinder down to the diameter of the smaller one, but then the larger arbor wheels won't fit right. I could try to shim/bush the larger diameter holes, but this would not be very convenient when changing wheels for different chains.
Some of this variation can be attributed to the quality of these tools and accessories. Combined with the screws on the wheel guards, users should probably not expect to frequently change grinding wheels. Maybe at this price, they buy one grinder for each size wheel?
I have not experienced this problem on larger grinders using Oregon, Tecomec, or Molemab branded wheels. The smaller Oregon 310 grinder, due Spring 2015, comes with both 1/8 and 3/16 wheels (not sure if standard or as accessories) - so they must have addressed this consistency, at least with their branded accessories.
Philbert
Tried this. Traced shape of vise onto thin cardstock.
Cut this out of some 0.040" thick aluminum from the scrap pile, bringing the effective slot width to around 0.080" (I don't expect to run any harvester chain through this grinder).
Attached it with some double-stick tape.
3/8 low pro chain slides better in both directions, after pulling it back-and-forth to seat the shim (although, it still has to be lifted from the plastic groove at the other end of the vise - now shown). Not sure how long it will last. This was a quick-and-dirty attempt to see if it would work - easy to remove or replace. Grinder is still a sow's ear.
Philbert
My 'Nick the Grinder' after a visit to the laundry tub.
Has a simple angle iron adaptor for the bench vice.
I got him free from a forum member here local.
THANKS STEVE!!!
Has a simple angle iron adaptor for the bench vice.
I got him free from a forum member here local.
THANKS STEVE!!!
I bought one of the cheap, (think $19.95) models from Northern Tool when I first started. Total waste of money, loud, vibrated excessively, got hot quick, poor clamping mechanism, quickly upgraded to an Oregon, worth every penny. A buddy of mine has a Harbor Freight model and it is adequate, much better than the POS I got at Northern.
Joe
Joe
Philbert had to help me get here cause my feeble brain could not find this thread and I wanted to read it. At least now I should be able to find my way back. Jeff
So i just read the entire thread i say good job done by all. It is hard to keep on topic this far in eyerone still behaving and all.
From the ones i have see so far the Sharpener with Auto Feed looks like the best to me?( Post 117) I dont know who makes it maybe Quick Feed ? anyway i am heading out to google it up. It may cost a bunch but i will know that soon i guess.
I just took home a Husky 450 with 5 chains owned by a very nice but inexperienced user here at work so that i could sharpen his chains for him, i did them last spring too. One of the five had been used i think to cut Granite slabs !! holy smoke baaaad bad. I wish i had a grinder when i got to that one. Thanks for posting all the info i dont know if i will ever buy one but i have a lot more information now than i did before.
From the ones i have see so far the Sharpener with Auto Feed looks like the best to me?( Post 117) I dont know who makes it maybe Quick Feed ? anyway i am heading out to google it up. It may cost a bunch but i will know that soon i guess.
I just took home a Husky 450 with 5 chains owned by a very nice but inexperienced user here at work so that i could sharpen his chains for him, i did them last spring too. One of the five had been used i think to cut Granite slabs !! holy smoke baaaad bad. I wish i had a grinder when i got to that one. Thanks for posting all the info i dont know if i will ever buy one but i have a lot more information now than i did before.
I think that that model had the best demonstrator using it. Not sure what kind of edge it puts on chains - i.e. how well they cut afterwards. Let us know if you get one.
My current thought is 'simpler is better' with these inexpensive grinders. I am curious to see what the new Oregon model (Post#132) will look/work like - if it will be a higher quality grinder that can serve as a serious alternative to the 511A type grinders.
Philbert
