ArboristSite.com Sponsors
 
 


Hook up thermostat for Outdoor Wood Boiler

Discussion in 'Firewood, Heating and Wood Burning Equipment' started by rsnyder, Sep 6, 2008.

  1. rsnyder

    rsnyder ArboristSite Lurker

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2008
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Lowville, NY
    I am just finishing up installing my Central Boiler outdoor wood boiler. I have run into a snag on how to hook up my existing thermostat so that it will turn on the blower instead of trying to fire the oil burner.

    I came across this website when doing a google search and saw this old thread from a few years back http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=38961 but it did not work.

    I have a Ritetemp 8022C thermostat, down in the basement it hooks to an old (1974) Newmac wood/oil combination furnace. Only the blower will be used the burner is shot on it, I have a backup propane gun on the boiler. The wires go to a circuit board on the furnace above the circuit board I have a silver box Honeywell R8405C1007 and a black box that starts with R8225 (can't read the rest)

    At the thermostat I have three wires: Black to W, White to Rh, and Red never hooked up.
    At the furnace: Black to W, White to R, and red goes to the black box then out and to G. Two wires connect R & W to the oil burner. Two wires go from two T screws to behind the silver box.

    Here's a picture of the furnace circuit board:
    [​IMG]

    Thanks

    Rob
     
  2. Wirenut2266

    Wirenut2266 AboristSite Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Messages:
    541
    Likes Received:
    81
    Location:
    Southern Minnesota
    Hold On, I say Hold On.....

    I read your post three x, I "think" I know what you want, but......This outside boiler, how does the control circuit work? Is it looking for a contact closure (i.e. thermostat) or is it looking for a 24 volt control voltage to pull in a control relay? As far as that picture you posted, that appears to be a "fan center". It has it's own trans/relay, thermostat gets tied into that, then fan center controls 120 volt load. (I.e. pump, blower, etc).

    Tell me if this scenerio is correct: Your t-stat calls for heat, you want blower in basement to come on, then circulate water from OWB?

    Let me know, I'll walk you through it. I gunno have "a few" more beeers now, we'll get this figured out:dizzy:
     
  3. mga

    mga Tree Freak

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    21,292
    Likes Received:
    4,657
    Location:
    near rochester, but not in it
    i believe that's what he wants, but he also doesn't want the oil burner to fire up when it calls for heat and the fan.
     
  4. Butch(OH)

    Butch(OH) Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,922
    Likes Received:
    427
    Location:
    Ohio
    I am not schooled in HVAC so I cant just give the hook up like " hook this letter to that one" etc but I did get mine to work and can tell you how to get started trouble shooting ( I think) What you need to do is make contact between the R and G when you call cal for heat that is what makes the fan run. Just two wires, not three. You did leave the old furnace powered up right? With it powered up jump between the R and G terminals, with a length of wire, you can do it holding the wire with your fingers, low voltage. The fan only should come on, if not then there is problems with the control or fan that need to be fixed. If the fan comes on then you have wiring or thermostat problems. There are some differences in how the thermostats work for some of the newer systems, some you can switch a wire inside and make them work, some not.. The instructions that came with mine were pretty clear. Again I am not familiar with the one you chose. With an Ohmmeter you dont need an instruction book, you need to find terminals that make contact when you move the lever above room temp. Then wire them to the "R" and "G" on the furnace. Sorry if I have confused more instead of helped. If i had your stuff i my hands I could hook it up quicker than I can type, I just dont know the prim and proper terminology.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2008
  5. Wirenut2266

    Wirenut2266 AboristSite Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Messages:
    541
    Likes Received:
    81
    Location:
    Southern Minnesota
    Butch: You are correct, on your application. But he has a fan control center in his control circuit, that may need to be re-configured. Lets not steer the poor fella in the wrong direction here!! Still need to know how boiler is controlled.....Is it sending out 24v. to t-stat and back to complete ciruit, or....I'll bet it has it's own fan control center for control purposes. Now, just cause I call it a fan control center, doesnt mean it has a fan.....here we go again, beer me!
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2008
  6. Butch(OH)

    Butch(OH) Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,922
    Likes Received:
    427
    Location:
    Ohio
    Your probably right, I should keep my trap shut here because i am not very learned about them. I can tell you that unless he has extensively modified his Central Boiler operating system that his house thermostat had exactly nothing to do with the boiler. It runs all buy it's lonesome with it's own separate control that keep the circulating water between x and X temp. This is done outside at the boiler. The pumps run all the time, 24-7 pumping water through a heat exchanger in the house duct work. The only thing the house 'stat is run the fan when there is a call for heat.

    Maybe this info will help you help him. Ill step out of the way,LOL
     
  7. rsnyder

    rsnyder ArboristSite Lurker

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2008
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Lowville, NY
    I guess I should have gotten on here a little sooner, but I've had a few :givebeer: beers in me now. But anyways, yep the circulating pump runs 24/7 and the blower is from an old furnace that is no longer in service. The guys from another forum may have it, my fan/limit switch from my old wood/oil combination furnace may not be letting the blower kick on. I'll investigate a little more in the mornin' and let you know.

    Thanks for all the responses and I'll reread em all in the mornin'
     
  8. Wirenut2266

    Wirenut2266 AboristSite Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Messages:
    541
    Likes Received:
    81
    Location:
    Southern Minnesota
    WTF: Why didn't you say OWB was totally independant. Hook t-stat to to red and green on fan control center and walk away...Butch was correct! Now we have another problem: You mentioned somethin about "another" forum...:( All answers to lifes twists and turns can and will be solved here, PERIOD. Next time I hear somethin bout surfin "other" forums, Neg rep will be dished out a plenty. Example: Just the other day my roids flared up, posted on here for advice, was told to sit on warm not hot idleing MS361 for 3 minutes. Well guess what, did as told, roids all gone now:clap: Now, if you have an STD, that "may" be a good enough reason for other website uses!!! Bruce

    P.s. If you can't get fan to run, yes, fan switch would be only problem left unless wiring error, Bruce.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2008
    pinemartin likes this.
  9. rsnyder

    rsnyder ArboristSite Lurker

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2008
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Lowville, NY
    See, I didn't find this great, wonderful forum :) until after I started getting help in the "other" one.

    But yea, I think the problem is the limit switch. I won't be able to play with it again until tomorrow. But the limit switch has three wires; blue to fan-load, red to limit-load, and black to limit-line. I figure if I connect the fan-load and limit-line together it would bypass the switch, maybe? But I'll play with it tomorrow.

    Anymore ideas, and I'll drop those "other" guys.

    Rob
     
  10. mtfallsmikey

    mtfallsmikey Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,589
    Likes Received:
    404
    Location:
    Mt. Falls Va.
    Ok...

    What type of limit do you have? Is it like an L4064 honeywell, that has a bi-metal spring? A limit switch by itself would only break the circuit (to burner) at 200 deg. or so. The fan part starts the fan at a predetermined or adjustable temp. in the supply plenum, say 130 deg. You could use a SPDT switch on the furnace on the "R" wire to the stat, switch. I'm using a spare Honeywell R8229 relay to power a second stat for wood; start the blower and circ. for the hydrocoil on temp. fall. Keeps things simple, leaves the oil furnace operating normally...also, do you have central A.C. on this system?
     
  11. rsnyder

    rsnyder ArboristSite Lurker

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2008
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Lowville, NY
    Thanks for the reply, I believe it is an L4064 limiter, I can't find a number on it. I placed a jumper between the fan-load and limit-line but it just runs the fan continuously no matter what the temp is set for. I'm trying to avoid buying more parts, but I don't think this is working out to well. I have no AC, and the furnace is not being used anymore (I have propane backup on the OWB) so I'm just trying to get the blower to kick on when the house calls for heat.

    Thanks
    Rob
     
  12. ghitch75

    ghitch75 AboristSite Guru

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    593
    Likes Received:
    35
    Location:
    bloomfeild in
    that looks like a primary control for an oil furnace....won't work....you need a fan center...24 volt transformer and a 24 volt coil single pole single throw relay....then get you a heating only T-stat and hook R to 1 side of the transformer and W to 1 side of the coil on the relay and the other side of the relay to the other side of the transformer....then hook the hot wire to your blower on the relay contacts....
     
  13. panhead9

    panhead9 ArboristSite Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    North Jersey
    You cant use the existing fan limit switch as it will never come on as you are not using the burner you need a honeywell RA89 switching relay about $80
    here is a link to the relay you need and a link to the wiring diagram your fan will be the load, L1 and L2 self explanatory, and T&T will go to the 2 tstat wires

    First RA89 control
    https://customer.honeywell.com/honeywell/ProductInfo.aspx/RA89A1074

    wiring diagram P2 Figure 2 use left diagram do not use right one

    http://customer.honeywell.com/techlit/pdf/69-0000s/69-2041.pdf

    Any questions let me know I can get you hooked up

    Also why do you want to run this fan? Just to circulate air thru house or do you have a hot water coil in furnace?
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2008
  14. rsnyder

    rsnyder ArboristSite Lurker

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2008
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Lowville, NY
    Thanks for the reply, I started thinking that I couldn't do what I wanted to with my existing setup.

    I have an heat exchanger in the plenum, the downstairs of my house is heated by forced hot air.
     
  15. Wirenut2266

    Wirenut2266 AboristSite Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Messages:
    541
    Likes Received:
    81
    Location:
    Southern Minnesota
    I told ya so........

    Ha, Did i read something bout a fan control center???? I swear I read that somewhere, dunno.....Stop why your ahead. Now like I said, a fan control center will do the trick, regardless of some dumb limit switch! Time to hire an electrician and be done wit it! Sounds like a little too in depth for the average joe to be done properly.
     
  16. panhead9

    panhead9 ArboristSite Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    North Jersey
    With that fan switch jump RtoG it is 24v so you wont get whacked.this should bring fan on This is the same as setting your tstat switch to "fan on" I cant really see that control you have If you post number along with tail numbers of control I can help you more. If this works just wire the 2 tstat wires to these terminals but be sure to set the fan to low speed cause with that setup you will tend to pull a lot of heat out of coil and if you use R-G you will not have the fan limit switch to shut down fan when it gets too cool.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2008
  17. mtfallsmikey

    mtfallsmikey Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,589
    Likes Received:
    404
    Location:
    Mt. Falls Va.
    The control in the pic is a Honeywell R8184G, strictly for control of the oil burner...the RA89 will work, also an RA832A will work as well....or, use a line voltage t-stat to the blower, just choose the proper speed lead. This is the same setup as mine,I have a CB5036 OWB, Heil hydrocoil installed in a oil-fired forced air furnace, using the R8229 relay just cuz I sucked it out of an old heat pump air handler, hooked up to a separate T87 honeywell 'stat. That way the oil furnace can operate normally without manually switching between the two.
     
  18. rsnyder

    rsnyder ArboristSite Lurker

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2008
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Lowville, NY
    Thanks for the help guys, I'm going to pick up an RA89 and I'll let you know how I make out.

    Rob
     
  19. mga

    mga Tree Freak

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    21,292
    Likes Received:
    4,657
    Location:
    near rochester, but not in it
    i have a honeywell R182c 1051

    transformer and dual relays....would that work?
     
  20. ngzcaz

    ngzcaz ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    451
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    NE Pa. ( Poconos )
    Ok Mr Wizard.. I mean Wirenutt... how about a setup that has a themostat in the back of the stove( small screwdriver changes the setting to whatever ) and has the usual overflow tube out the left side of the stove. How do I hook up something that tells me what the temp of the water as I go to charge the OWB in the front of the stove ? Going down the steps in the basement to check the temp on the oil burner aquastat doesnt cut it.
    Without buying another stove NO ONE has a feasible alternative. Any ideas ?

    :dizzy:
     

Share This Page