How to measure wood (what is a cord?)

[blk90s13]

You can back that truck into my yard any time. I've got a loader makes it easier to stack than using a wheelbarrow.

Sure delivery to DE will cost you a lot

 

[Delaware Devil]

Corded wood

Lately I've been buying wood at the local Amish Saw mill. They get a lot they can't really use. The crooks, the knots Some really narly stuff, and I get a lot of cut off boards. These guys only do hard wood and make pallets for industrial shipping. Some of the knots really put a strain on my splitter. I think I have enough for this year, now I'm working on next year.

 

[Philbert]

Lately I've been buying wood at the local Amish Saw mill. They get a lot they can't really use. The crooks, . . .

I had to read that twice!!! I'm assuming by 'crooks' you are saying that they cannot use pieces of wood that are not straight. NOT that the Amish Saw Mill is dishonest!

Philbert

 

[Delaware Devil]

Yes the crooked pieces

Some of them look like pretzels The knots and crooks, not the Amish. No, I like dealing with the Amish people there, They are honest to a fault. Down here not many true Amish anymore. Farming the way it is, they can't afford to live the life. More and more families are reforming and going to the Menonite ways. And the people i deal with are a mix of Amish and Menonite, but they are great.
By the way my name is Mark. I retired from industry a number of years ago and have been driving a school bus for the state since then. I just wish the summers were cooler.

 

[danthe]

A few years back, I was short on wood for the winter so I placed an order for two cord of 16 in split hardwood. The wood dealer delivers with small dumptruck. I paid him the requested price. (200$ back then). When I piled the wood as usual, I ended up with two piles of 16 in x 4 height x 22 feet.

When I when back to the dealer to complain, he told me that locally a 16 in split and stacked firewood equal 21.8 feet at 4 feet high??? I told him in my book a cord was always 16 in x 4 ft x 24 ft.
He responded that I actually purchase a cord ( 8 ft logs x 4 ft leght x 4 ft high) prior to processing and the local industry?? have decided that a cord was 22 ft. So really I was paying for the lost normal compression of small piece incured during processing.

I check with other dealer and all the wood dealer said the same other than two old timer that respected the 24ft lenght.

I never bought wood after this...made sure that I had lots of wood from the woodlot each years.

 

[turnkey4099]

A few years back, I was short on wood for the winter so I placed an order for two cord of 16 in split hardwood. The wood dealer delivers with small dumptruck. I paid him the requested price. (200$ back then). When I piled the wood as usual, I ended up with two piles of 16 in x 4 height x 22 feet.

When I when back to the dealer to complain, he told me that locally a 16 in split and stacked firewood equal 21.8 feet at 4 feet high??? I told him in my book a cord was always 16 in x 4 ft x 24 ft.
He responded that I actually purchase a cord ( 8 ft logs x 4 ft leght x 4 ft high) prior to processing and the local industry?? have decided that a cord was 22 ft. So really I was paying for the lost normal compression of small piece incured during processing.

I check with other dealer and all the wood dealer said the same other than two old timer that respected the 24ft lenght.

I never bought wood after this...made sure that I had lots of wood from the woodlot each years.

So the local industry are all crooks. His explanation is even BS. 8ft logs 4'x16' will process to well over a cord. Wood expands with cutting/splitting/piling unless one is processing some very crooked logs.

Even so, a cord of wood is defined as split and tightly piles, not what it was in logs.

bottom line - they are all crooks and if your state regulates firewood sales, one call would have ended the scam at least for that dealer.

Harry K

 

[Wood Doctor]

This makes sense, and was my first reaction. But what if he wants a full cord cut into 12" pieces instead of 16" pieces. How much would you charge?

Philbert

I would add about 25% to my normal price because short pieces like that require more cutting and more work. I cut all my big logs 16" to 18" lengths prior to splitting because most customers want at least that length, and they despise short pieces that don't even stack very well.

How on earth do you sell a whole bunch of leftover 4" to 6" pieces cut from 16" to 18" logs?

 

[Alan cox]

measureing firewood. both agree what the guy is getting and for how much.

A few years back, I was short on wood for the winter so I placed an order for two cord of 16 in split hardwood. The wood dealer delivers with small dumptruck. I paid him the requested price. (200$ back then). When I piled the wood as usual, I ended up with two piles of 16 in x 4 height x 22 feet.

When I when back to the dealer to complain, he told me that locally a 16 in split and stacked firewood equal 21.8 feet at 4 feet high??? I told him in my book a cord was always 16 in x 4 ft x 24 ft.
He responded that I actually purchase a cord ( 8 ft logs x 4 ft leght x 4 ft high) prior to processing and the local industry?? have decided that a cord was 22 ft. So really I was paying for the lost normal compression of small piece incured during processing.

I check with other dealer and all the wood dealer said the same other than two old timer that respected the 24ft lenght.


ok. first thing you did wrong was not communicate exactly what you are getting and the second thing you must be aware of is that stacking wood is not a science.

there can be as much as 25% difference in a pile of wood between two different guys stacking. thats one guy stacking it 25% looser and the other guy stacking it 25% tighter.. what should be done is go there and see it staked in racks or rows and sayI want that row of wood , take it. what I do is deliver it. stack it and have it in rows 4 ft high. 8 ft long. so there is no mistake. .
you should go buy some trees. cut em up. split em and then sell the wood. work expenses for less than you have in it.

we get $75 bucks for a 4ft high and 4 ft wide stack of wood thats $150 a row 4ft high. 8 ft long and in 16 in pieces. delivered andstacked. and I dont feel I am getting enough even at that.

al cox

 

[Alan cox]

short pieces

I would add about 25% to my normal price because short pieces like that require more cutting and more work. I cut all my big logs 16" to 18" lengths prior to splitting because most customers want at least that length, and they despise short pieces that don't even stack very well.

How on earth do you sell a whole bunch of leftover 4" to 6" pieces cut from 16" to 18" logs?

a lot of amish sawmills have a conveyer with a swing arm saw. the belt indexes 16 inches but the wood is thrown on randomly so the saw swings through the wood. it indexes. then swings through again. there are a lot of 16 in pieces but the randomly thrown slabs come with the ends anywhere so there are thousands of anything goes. totally trash wood. dirt. burns like sawdust. impossible to stack. usually tons of dirt all over it because its bark slid through the woods being drug out while it is onthe log. total waste of time. total.

 

[Wood Doctor]

Handling Short Lengths

a lot of amish sawmills have a conveyer with a swing arm saw. the belt indexes 16 inches but the wood is thrown on randomly so the saw swings through the wood. it indexes. then swings through again. there are a lot of 16 in pieces but the randomly thrown slabs come with the ends anywhere so there are thousands of anything goes. totally trash wood. dirt. burns like sawdust. impossible to stack. usually tons of dirt all over it because its bark slid through the woods being drug out while it is onthe log. total waste of time. total.

One of my friends cuts his elm logs this way (12" lengths), and then lets the rounds sit for six months before he splits them by hand. That's right folks, he splits American and Chinese elm by hand with an 8-lb splitting maul. It can be done, but the 12" lengths make it a lot easier, so I don't ever criticize him. His back and arms are stronger than mine. In my youth, I used to do it also, but those days are gone.

We have an abundance of elm to work with and two years ago, I told him to let that elm dry in the round until the bark started falling off and it started to check up on the ends. Then split it. He thanked me for that and said that his stove takes a 24" log. So, he loads them in end-to-end when he burns them. I guess that's Yankee ingenuity emerging in eastern Nebraska.

 

[CRThomas]

Good thread.

Just curious for some input on this problem...I've been offering to custom cut firewood. I've been asked in the past for 12" pieces. I'm not sure how to charge. I know I will use less wood in a 4x8 rick (face cord) if I cut it at 12" instead of 16". But I will have the same amount of time (maybe a little less) processing 12'' rounds as I would in processing 16" rounds. Same problem applies to a full cord...there would be 4 ricks (4x8) of 12" wood versus 3 ricks of 16". That is substantially more processing time.
1/4 cord vs. 1/3 cord... Less wood but same cuts and splits. Time is money to me...

Very curious to how everyone else deals with this or a similar situation.

People are wanting to buy firewood by the piece but don't know how to charge need a little help thanks

 

[Wood Doctor]

Indeed an Interesting Post

People are wanting to buy firewood by the piece but don't know how to charge need a little help thanks

Buying firewood by the piece? Are you kidding me? I suppose it is possible.

Well, how about $1 for each piece--a good size log at that. See what they say. Can't hurt to try. Had I done that last spring I would have probably doubled my $Sales for the summer.

 

[Coldfront]

In response to the crack about who should and shouldn't be burnin' wood, I have two younger kids that actually help out at home, and they have issues with the bigger wood, but we also inherited an insert that's pretty small at the back - so 12-14" logs are a lot easier to load. I also cut for two older couples that can't afford to pay the oil company ransom, so the only affordable way for them to keep warm and remain independent is to burn what they can handle. Rather than piles of sticks they prefer thicker pieced splits of a shorter length. Who am I to judge?

Coldfront, gettin' old ain't fer pussies, and if ya don't drop a tree on yerself, ya might live long enough to find that out for yourself. People don't have to justify to the market what they want and why, they just have to be willing to pay for it and the market will typically respond. The annoyance of trying to deal with irregular or malapropped units of measure only makes people more leery and a bigger PITA to deal with. I show folks a four row cord of 12" that I keep for our small insert, and a three row cord of 16" that I cut for another. Since I'm cuttin' for a year or two out there's always a split cord of each on hand for them to see for themselves. Don't have to do much explaining about why I charge more for one than the other. The extra work is self evident and most folks can see and understand that without too much trouble.

Visual aids aside, people also appreciate being shown how to determine seasoned from green and the difference in BTU potential between varieties of wood. If you're interested in establishing a relationship where people trust you and come back for more, you can't be too forthcoming with information. I've never had anybody complain about me trying to be too honest.

Oh come on, if you can't carry a piece of 16" split seasoned dry wood you have a bigger problem. My one year old granddaughter can carry that. If they are that weak or crippled they should be burning gas or fuel oil and get on a fuel assistance program.

 

[FatJay]

I don't buy split wood anymore because I can't trust the people delivering it. I don't know about other areas but if you call 3 local independent wood suppliers, you can get prices from $150/cord to $300/cord. "All hardwood" my ass. "Seasoned" my ass. This is my first year splitting everything, prior I'd get it semi-split and seasoned from a guy who gave me a break for cutting out some of his work, then hit it with the maul a few times. I'd come out with just above a cord for $200.

Basically I've learned that not all cords are created equal. Guy skims a few feet off 10 cords to make an extra cord and pockets $200. When you are selling a thousand cords that'll add up, and most people won't notice.

 

[turnkey4099]

Oh come on, if you can't carry a piece of 16" split seasoned dry wood you have a bigger problem. My one year old granddaughter can carry that. If they are that weak or crippled they should be burning gas or fuel oil and get on a fuel assistance program.

I hope you don't have to eat those words in your old age.

Harry K

 

[Aristol]

I think there is no issue as to how to measure wood. Its's quite simple as it should be measured in its volume, which will include it lengths, widths height an ddiameter. And somewhere it measured in Cord which contains 128 feet of stacked wood, which is usually 8 feet long, 4 feet high and deep.

 

[turnkey4099]

I think there is no issue as to how to measure wood. Its's quite simple as it should be measured in its volume, which will include it lengths, widths height an ddiameter. And somewhere it measured in Cord which contains 128 feet of stacked wood, which is usually 8 feet long, 4 feet high and deep.

Not "somewhere". It is measured in cords in any jurisdiction where wood sales are regulated under the "Weights and Measures" statutes. It is not optional. Since it is not policed as it should be there are a lot of scam artists and people who should know better selling by all kinds of unofficial measures - face cords is one which is generally regarded as 4x4x8' but still meaninglessunless the length of the splits is also given. Even then it is not a legal measure under the statutes and many of them specifically state that.

Harry K

 

[mrnecsteve]

In response to the crack about who should and shouldn't be burnin' wood, I have two younger kids that actually help out at home, and they have issues with the bigger wood, but we also inherited an insert that's pretty small at the back - so 12-14" logs are a lot easier to load. I also cut for two older couples that can't afford to pay the oil company ransom, so the only affordable way for them to keep warm and remain independent is to burn what they can handle. Rather than piles of sticks they prefer thicker pieced splits of a shorter length. Who am I to judge?

Coldfront, gettin' old ain't fer pussies, and if ya don't drop a tree on yerself, ya might live long enough to find that out for yourself. People don't have to justify to the market what they want and why, they just have to be willing to pay for it and the market will typically respond. The annoyance of trying to deal with irregular or malapropped units of measure only makes people more leery and a bigger PITA to deal with. I show folks a four row cord of 12" that I keep for our small insert, and a three row cord of 16" that I cut for another. Since I'm cuttin' for a year or two out there's always a split cord of each on hand for them to see for themselves. Don't have to do much explaining about why I charge more for one than the other. The extra work is self evident and most folks can see and understand that without too much trouble.

Visual aids aside, people also appreciate being shown how to determine seasoned from green and the difference in BTU potential between varieties of wood. If you're interested in establishing a relationship where people trust you and come back for more, you can't be too forthcoming with information. I've never had anybody complain about me trying to be too honest.

If I needed to buy wood...I would buy from you...

 

[elmoleaf]

Not "somewhere". It is measured in cords in any jurisdiction where wood sales are regulated under the "Weights and Measures" statutes. ......

Harry K

This is not true. Every state and locale seems to vary. As I posted in another thread:
In Massachusetts, "cord" is not an accepted measure...though used extensively nonethteless. Here is the law in MA:

MGL Chapter 94 Section 298. Cordwood sold or offered or exposed for sale shall be four feet in length. The term “firewood” shall be construed to mean and include wood cut to any lengths of less than four feet and more than eight inches. Cordwood and firewood shall be advertised, offered for sale and sold only in terms of cubic feet or cubic meters which will be construed as indicating the closely stacked cubic foot or cubic meter content to be delivered to the purchaser. The terms “cord”, “face cord”, “pile”, “truckload” or terms of similar import shall not be used in the advertising and sale of cordwood or firewood. The term “kindling wood” shall be construed to mean and include all split wood, edgings, clippings or other waste wood averaging eight inches in length. Except as provided by sections two hundred and forty-three and two hundred and forty-seven, the standard unit of measure for kindling wood shall be the bushel of two thousand one hundred and fifty and forty-two hundredths cubic inches.

Section 299. Whoever, except as otherwise provided, sells cordwood or firewood, shall cause a delivery ticket or sales invoice to be issued and delivered to the purchaser or his agent at the time of delivery of the wood. Such delivery ticket or sales invoice shall include the name and address of the seller and the purchaser, the quantity delivered to the purchaser in terms of cubic feet or cubic meters, the date delivered and the price of the quantity of wood delivered. Whoever violates any provision of this or the preceding section shall be punished for the first offense by a fine of fifty dollars, for the second offense by a fine of two hundred dollars and for each subsequent offense by a fine of five hundred dollars. Whoever alters or substitutes a delivery ticket or sales invoice for fraudulent or deceptive purposes shall be punished by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars or shall be subject to a civil citation as provided in section 29A of chapter 98.

 

[Delaware Devil]

I think we have a quandry here. Which is considered higher, The federal government or the state governmment?? Dept of Agriculture says one thing, State of Taxachusetts says another. If you want to buy by the foot, that's fine, but if I buy it I want a cord and that's 128 cubic feet. Fellow stopped yesterday. Had a short bed pick up and a small trailer piled with slab wood from a saw mill. Tried to tell me it was a cord, he left after I gave him a thorough schooling about weights and measures. He now realizes the error of his ways.