Humboldt or non Humboldt.

[Cedarkerf]

<--- I have a Humboldt pic some where. (Avatar)
<---

Al no way Ohio is flatter than your next door neighbor Indiana. It was a pleasure driving from Indy to Dayton to see cuts in the hills for the free ways.

Used a humboldt on this one for no particular reason I use both depending on the situation. Tall stump only for easy cut flushed it off anyway.

 

[adkranger]

I'm guessing a 25" dbh Hemlock might be a bad "learner" tree.

That all depends on what's around it (or not).................

PA are you cutting Hemlock for saw logs? It's a shame up here most all the Hemlock ends up in the pulp piles, used as bridge stringers, bumpers or rotting on the landing. No one wants to mess with it.

 

[Al Smith]

Well you have a point,to a point.The wind picks up speed coming accross Indiana .How some ever,the portion I live in has the least elevation change of anywhere on the planet .It extends from two miles north of me clear to lake Erie,once called the great black swamp and had the worlds largest oaks in pioneer days.That by the way was before old Humbolt was ever thought of.

 

[PA Plumber]

That all depends on what's around it (or not).................

PA are you cutting Hemlock for saw logs? It's a shame up here most all the Hemlock ends up in the pulp piles, used as bridge stringers, bumpers or rotting on the landing. No one wants to mess with it.

Yep. Mostly saw logs. I do have some pulp (smaller stuff) that I can get a whopping $12.50/ton for.

 

[Tree Sling'r]

Origin

The Humboldt originated in well, Humboldt County, the north coast of California in the late 1800's. ( I just left there on Friday cutting second growth Redwwods for two months) Anyway they fallers, after creaming the flat ground still had some hoots (they called them bastards) on the steeper ground. The Humboldt cut was originated there to keep the tree on the hill, rather than using a conventional cut and risking the tree sliding down the hill where they could not get it they experimented.
The old timers would would saw the top cut and then believe or not they would chop the undercut (Humboldt) out.
It stuck, for some they continued to use it regardless of the ground - others continued to use the conventional style cut, high stumps and all. Everywhere I worked over there for the past few months was surrounded by giant, really tall stumps and each had spring board marks.
Anyway, that's that.
If any of you ever have a chance, south of Eureka about 30 miles a town called Scotia, it is Victorian mill town owned by Pacific Lumber (PALCO) it has an awesome museum and many other really neat sites.
Google Scotia, Ca and read about it, neat stuff.

 

[superfire]

common more log value slower tree falling speed
Humboldt slight log value reduction faster log falling speed
Cheers Mates

common takes more time too close
Humboldt takes less time too close
Humboldt has one other advantage the butt can come free from the stump and reduce the chance of a domino tree

 

[Frank Boyer]

Tall Stumps

The Santa Cruz Mountains of CA are full of the remains of tall stumps with spring board holes. I guess it would matter a lot if you could reduce the size of the diameter of the tree for first cut by 2-4 feet. 10' to 15' diameter Redwoods were common for old growth. We still have one 15' left in the neighborhood. The top is totally blown out, but it is still very awesome.

 

[redprospector]

common takes more time too close
Humboldt takes less time too close

That would depend on the undercut. If they are both open the same amount, they will both close in the same amount of time. Gravity has a small part in this.

Andy

 

[2dogs]

Frank have you been to the king and queen, the Mtn Charlie redwood and the queen stump? I'll try to get there this week and have my wife take some pics to post here.

What kind of trees were shown in that old Ohio image?

 

[smokechase II]

wood fiber

The humboldt discussion is way more complicated than this.

But for a start:

 

[smokechase II]

more fiber

slides finished:

 

[2dogs]

I like that last jpg. In Scandiland I think you take a vacation between the face cut and the back cut.

 

[Sprig]

I'm having a bit of a problem with the "fall faster, fall slower" aspect of this discussion as the way I look at it is that once the cut is to the hinge and the tree starts ta go the major factor in how it falls is the lean, the weight of the canopy, direction of fall, and where you chose to place your hinge, all things that should be pre-planned as best as possible, ( I mean for that short bit where only the hinge is holding things up), by the time it gets moving the type of cut only matters near the end of the fall it how it falls off the stump,but with a more aggressive face cut having the tree (ex-tree) slide off the stump in the direction you wish to fall seems optimum, does this make sense? Just my wee blather fer the evening and as usual I stand to be corrected and keep on a learnin'



Serge

 

[2dogs]

The butt of the tree hits the ground earlier with a Humboldt and in my limited experience lands further from the stump. I think the tree may fall a bit softer too. Most of the big trees I have dropped have been dead or nearly so. The Humboldt feels more natural to me than a conventional when the diameter exceeds three feet or so.

 

[Sprig]

The butt of the tree hits the ground earlier with a Humboldt and in my limited experience lands further from the stump. I think the tree may fall a bit softer too. Most of the big trees I have dropped have been dead or nearly so. The Humboldt feels more natural to me than a conventional when the diameter exceeds three feet or so.

Thanks 2dogs, thats sortta my take on it too.

 

[SawTroll]

The butt of the tree hits the ground earlier with a Humboldt and in my limited experience lands further from the stump. I think the tree may fall a bit softer too. Most of the big trees I have dropped have been dead or nearly so. The Humboldt feels more natural to me than a conventional when the diameter exceeds three feet or so.

I don't understand the "softer" part, if the cuts are equally open and deep - but I guess they mostly aren't.....

That would depend on the undercut. If they are both open the same amount, they will both close in the same amount of time. Gravity has a small part in this.
..

I believe that is true.

 

[smokechase II]

cut height

Saw Troll:

You're right. Generally on a Humboldt (as practiced on the west coast USA), the face height is commonly around 20-25 degrees. Conventional are more typically 35-45 degrees.

With the same face opening, I do not believe there is any difference for how hard the tree hits.

****************

If you want to hit softer, lay down 5' plus dia cedar cross ways, then drop the fir on that cushion. That is actually the way it used to be done. The cedar were left.

****************

A couple other advantages for the Humboldt:

If you are dropping in a tight spot, where you are not allowed to clear out a lay and a hang up is likely, use a wide and deep Humboldt. If your tree hangs, it is easy (ier) to get it to drop off the stump, often allowing it to fall free. (I work in Campgrounds a bit and saving trees is required and the only merchantable product we're interested in is firewood for campers)

With a larger diameter strong leaner being fell, a Humboldt does not require as much cutting as conventional.

*************

Disadvantages to the Humboldt can be:

The lower you cut on most species, the denser and harder to cut the wood is. The bottom of the face can be a tad slow.

It takes away from vertical awareness on most cutters. Also body posture of the cutter is slanted more creating a larger target for limbs and tops. Before you argue this, watch some cutters over the next month or two that are of the same ability that use the two different techniques. Note their body posture and how easy it is for them to look up.

It is slightly more difficult to do than a conventional and for those learning it requires a lot of attention at the face.

 

[superfire]

good info

smoke where did you get these pictures ? Thanks for posting picts it makes the idea easier too see

 

[adkranger]

Right on Smoke, you're gunning right on target..............

 

[smokechase II]

prineville oregon

Superfire:

I'm all the way over here in Redmond. We're the big city with the new SuperCenter Wal-Mart to your west. Soon your view of the mountains will be completely blotted out with Lowes and Home Depot being completed. Sorry.

I made the 8 pics above as PowerPoint slides awhile back, and then converted them to JPEGs for posting here.

I can e-mail them as PowerPoint’s to anyone that wants.
You have permission to use them or modify as you like.