Hutzl

[r black]

not sure why i am replying to a post this old but any doubt about hutzl or farmer tech (no not a good as stock parts) but? ...ck out the u-tube afleetcomand testing there product

 

[Jimmy in NC]

Guess its tough all over with brand names... wonder if any one is surprised to find a Husqvarna branded Poulan, or Red Max... or that Jonsered are essentially red Husqvarna's... Or Blue Dolmars are Makita's.... Think there are only two major brand's out there where they can honestly claim they are the only brand under the plastic.. AND one of those REALLY like plastic. Even those brands buy parts from suppliers not under their corporate tent. And some of those suppliers are now selling parts made in .... China. Carb parts too which would seem risky... where are Zama's made? How about some of the new Tilotsons? And I've been stung with Brazilian built Husqvarna Ignitions for the 266 series...

Riskier yet is buying parts from a local dealer at OEM prices.... knowing that they may be AM part in fact. How do I know... because after the experience of the last two year, I recognize Forester packaging & recognize some of the Huztl parts. I bought an Air filter, and was handed a forester part.. so I politely asked for the OEM version......I would have paid the same price. Same with little things like fuel tank caps & Stihl rubber parts.

One thing you can take to the bank is if you buy something from Ashokan Turf & Timber, its going to be OEM. Almost a religion...and that's a good thing.

I've been burned and when I questioned them you'd thought I slapped their mother. I don't trade with those local dealers anymore.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

...ck out the u-tube afleetcomand testing....

Some good and useful info there. Any reason ya didn't reference these vids, Spike?

 

[spike60]

Sorry I seemed to have struck a nerve Poge. If you don't think things are done a little differently in China, well, I'm always glad to meet an independent thinker. And though you point out the distinction between facts and opinions, your post contained zero facts and was 100% opinion, or "useless BS" if you prefer.

Don't agree at all that the bottom line rests with the integrity of the retailer. Does everyone else in the supply chain get a pass? It's virtually impossible for the retailer to be confident of either the quality or the source of these parts precisely because of the way it's set up, beginning "over there".

And that has been my fundimental argument all along.. The distributors peddling this stuff to retailers are often as much in the dark as anyone. They can't even answer basic questions about the origin of these parts. The folks selling Mako couldn't even understand when I pointed out to them that their cylinders came from at least 3 different sources. The answer I received from them was "We're assured by our vendor in Austrailia that this is the best stuff out of China." Wow, that's great, huh? Direct sources like Farmertec may eliminate a few middle men, and lower the price, but it's still the same mess.

One of many examples: Husky 372 mounts have jumped in price. Thought I'd try some AM mounts. I mean, how could they screw up a spring? Well, they can and did. Gave a few out to guys to try. Inconsistant sizes, poor fit, and some fell apart where I'd never seen the real ones brake. In the trash can they went. As I said earlier, my customer base, a large one, is 85% pro/serious user. You're not gonna fool these guys, and I see things that most here on the saw sites won't see. And since I've actually experienced these things, they are facts, not opinions.

If a dealer really wants to maintain his integrity, he'll avoid these parts whenever possible. I completely share you opinion however about shops using these parts in customer jobs, and A, not revealing it, and B, charging OEM prices for them. And its actually a lot more common than you might suspect. Particularly with "we work on everything" shops who are not actually dealers for Husky or Stihl or whatever. (A prime reason why I won't work on Stihls.)

This may all get better at some point. The size of some of the distributors like Stens will insist on consistant quality. Until then, my "opinion" of both the quality and distribution model of Chinese saw parts is that it's something a reputable dealer should stay away from.

 

[weimedog]

One thing I can say about Spike is he is probably the best Husqvarna / Jonsered dealer on the east coast. I have to say one of the reasons is that he does put the best parts he can get his hands on in every saw he repairs. And he does a great business. OEM is the best bet and I will say that over and over. He and I can tussle over the AM parts & their value but I am a farmer & he is a absolute professional. I like to tweak my saws and its as much for fun as anything. He makes a living making certain his customers are ready to go to work with their saws with the least chance possible they will fail.... which means he yet again uses OEM. Different world.

My focus is for nut cases like me and I share real time the experience .. good and bad! The AM parts have made the hobby affordable and my wife complains how my saws seem to multiply. I would be bankrupt if all the top ends I have tweaked were new OEM. My saws do get tested, by me and also a few professional loggers because I want to know if the builds I do actually have a place. My video's tell the story and I have been pleasantly surprised with some of the AM suppliers and have no problem articulating that. Those video's are essentially raw data for those looking to do similar things as I have. AND to want to go there means we are of similar mind set accepting the implied risks. When I repair someone else's saw, I will use OEM parts and build to OEM specifications unless they specifically ask for replica's of what I have built and tested to where I also have confidence in the build.... That too is shown in the video's, for example 390's and several other repairs that found their way into video's.

One thing both Spike60 and I have fun doing is..... building off beat saws. Some old, some from junk piles, some the less popular models... just like working on saws. We show those saws and experiences in some of those video's... And I have been fortunate to have spike60's knowledge and experience to also show in those video's. Actually we all have, especially with the saw college video's. Priceless information and in the case of the older saws such as the Jonsered 920's, knowledge that is going away.

SO we may joust intellectually here on the subject, just understand when it count's, he's is always going to be on the statistically safe & therefor right side of the issue.

I still will build my eclectic twisted saws. He will build reliable work saws for his professional customer base. I will continue to run and test what I have built... and if you watch long enough, I'm certain there will eventually be a light show as we push the limits on these saw designs and parts. Have to say...nothing has exploded yet! But if you think its been all roses...go back and watch part three & four of the Huztl 350 build...

But to my premise in this thread.. Huztl is the only place I'll go for AM parts from the Pacific rim. (Or State Side folks who have their Farmertec labeled parts) For my saws Period. They have a warrantee and they have shown both the willingness and ability to improve their product offerings. And as Spike has pointed out, my experience has shaped my opinion. I have a lot of their stuff making wood chips right now....even that 350 top end that required a dremel tool to make run well.

 

[spike60]

Some good and useful info there. Any reason ya didn't reference these vids, Spike?

I was IN some of those videos.

Walter and I drew different conclusions from those experiments. Primarily due to us looking at the stuff through different microscopes. I looked at it through the lens of a dealer selling parts that will see heavy use. Walt's lens was a little more from the hobbiest perspective and as a economical source of raw materials for porting projects and such.

I saw what I needed to see and lost interest. Walt continued and got involved with some of the farmertec stuff. We still needle each other about it, He thinks I'm a humorless curmudgeon on the whole thing and I refer to him as the North American marketing director for farmertec. It's comical and we have some fun with it.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

Maybe I should get my MS250 out and try it some more. I have a guy gonna bring me some more wood this week so I'll use the 250 only and see how she holds up.

 

[weimedog]

I was IN some of those videos.

Walter and I drew different conclusions from those experiments. Primarily due to us looking at the stuff through different microscopes. I looked at it through the lens of a dealer selling parts that will see heavy use. Walt's lens was a little more from the hobbiest perspective and as a economical source of raw materials for porting projects and such.

I saw what I needed to see and lost interest. Walt continued and got involved with some of the farmertec stuff. We still needle each other about it, He thinks I'm a humorless curmudgeon on the whole thing and I refer to him as the North American marketing director for farmertec. It's comical and we have some fun with it.

Couldn't have said it better my self. ( He hates Cyclops BTW, doesn't see the humor in that saw at all!)

 

[weimedog]

Maybe I should get my MS250 out and try it some more. I have a guy gonna bring me some more wood this week so I'll use the 250 only and see how she holds up.

Run it until it pitches a rod! Then make a video.... I've been trying to get one like that for two years!!

 

[Rx7man]

I recently bought a Farmertec 272 top end, with bottom end gaskets, bearings, fuel line, decomp, spark plug, etc for $60 CDN delivered Fedex (about $20 of the 60). I was pleasantly surprised with how everything looked. I think the plating looks OK, but as I was grinding the ports out I think the base aluminum is of a different composition (less hard) than OEM Mahle... How that will affect the saw in the long run, I don't know.

What I can say is that the saw runs good, I put a tuned pipe on it and it hauls ass with a 32" bar buried in fir, and hasn't scuffed the piston yet, even though I did overheat it once (and that was my bad)

 

[a. palmer jr.]

Run it until it pitches a rod! Then make a video.... I've been trying to get one like that for two years!!

It has an OEM rod and crank, thought I shouldn't risk putting a Chinese rod or crank in it, the thing might come out and hit me!

 

[Rx7man]

I don't mind AM chinese parts, but the price has to reflect the quality... That being said, I don't like getting gouged on OEM as well.. if the Chinese can make a full kit for $34 USD, I think there's some gouging going on when the OEM's charge $300 for the same kit.. the basic processes in building it are the same, most of the manufacturing is CNC machining, so it comes down to the alloys used and a difference in labor costs... I can't justify a ten fold increase in cost for that.

My buddy got an NWP kit for a 272, and the piston/cylinder looked good, but he got half as much stuff for double the price, and when I looked closely at it, I was a little disappointed at the size of the exhaust port, it was REALLY tiny.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

Some of the Stihls are made in the USA so I'm wondering if the pistons and cylinders and other parts aren't made here. As I'm kinda older now I doubt I'd overwork any of my saws and it seemed like AM parts would be good enough as long as they weren't defects.

 

[weimedog]

It has an OEM rod and crank, thought I shouldn't risk putting a Chinese rod or crank in it, the thing might come out and hit me!

My speculation is it will run until your sick of it and buy another saw...

 

[spike60]

Couldn't have said it better my self. ( He hates Cyclops BTW, doesn't see the humor in that saw at all!)

There's plenty of humor there; all you have to do is look at it. And I might have even been the one who came up with the "Cyclops" name when I saw how ugly it is.

I'm going to bring a little different mix of saws up to the farm for myself. Some like the 2156SS are a little ugly themselves, yet still all Swedish. As is fitting for this thread, with the exception of your 920 Super, your current work saw roster reads like the menu down at the Ming Moon.

 

[weimedog]

There's plenty of humor there; all you have to do is look at it. And I might have even been the one who came up with the "Cyclops" name when I saw how ugly it is.

I'm going to bring a little different mix of saws up to the farm for myself. Some like the 2156SS are a little ugly themselves, yet still all Swedish. As is fitting for this thread, with the exception of your 920 Super, your current work saw roster reads like the menu down at the Ming Moon.

Now that's funny! Diverse is what they call it now... I have diversity in the work roster. Of course Cyclops is a mix.... only piston/cylinder/muffler Huztl parts. The 350... same blend, Huztl top end & muffler. Only one is 90 percent from the Pacific rim...the MS660's. And of course the 920, turning into a main saw as it runs really well. THINKING of bringing the 2094... just it hurts even thinking about starting that thing!

They may be ugly but they ALL run pretty! Especially Cyclops!
(Put wood in the truck?? Yes they do and will for a long time & I un apologetically like my blended saws )

(BTW its rare for spike60 to have a truly ugly saw. Very rare)

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

......I seemed to have struck a nerve Poge.

Well, that's a fact.

And though you point out the distinction between facts and opinions, your post contained zero facts and was 100% opinion, or "useless BS" if you prefer.

My response to what came off to me as little more than condescending preaching was indeed my opinion. And is also a fact. No BS there, just attitude...if you prefer.

this may all get better at some point. The size of some of the distributors like Stens will insist on consistant quality. Until then, my "opinion" of both the quality and distribution model of Chinese saw parts is that it's something a reputable dealer should stay away from.

Point was (is), that's not the fundamental basis of the discussion..., .and is the opinion of a pro dealer who is dedicated to the integrity of providing OEM parts to guys who depend on their saws day in and day out to put food on the table and feed their kids...even when they don't even know what they're running or that they left their bread and butter tool layin' in the mud only to be crushed and buried by a skidder....in the best interests of never ever considering a more effective and economical solution to repair such frequent incidents of neglect and operator ignorance. Most could care less and wouldn't know the difference anyway..

Yeah, I may have been wearing my a$$hole hat last night instead of my clown shoes, but for the sake of the discussion as misspelled in the title of the thread, elaborate input from a pro dealer who would have nothing to do with AM parts, but who also proclaims to be on the inside track of how all the subtle off-shore production and distribution semantics effect how I should think about -- or consider thinking about making my own choices regarding HUZTL (or any other AM) products was just a little over the top based upon the general scope of the thread....and frankly, is one of those preachy-type approaches that just annoys the piss outta me sometimes. And yeah, I'm guilty of doin' it too on occasion.

And after later viewing of some of the YouTube material in which you were involved, I was a little surprised at the lack of reference to some of that material as a basis for a more comprehensive representation of your position/opinion on the actual Huztl discussion itself.

After all, is Huztl good? Bad? Upside down?

I'm goin' way out on a what (in my opinion) is a humorous limb with a resounding, "It depends."

All I know is there's no way in hell I'd pay OEM prices for any number of replacement parts for any of my personal pro-style saws, though Stihl prices for top end and certain other components are dropping drastically.

But I also respect your integrity and tenacity in sticking to your OEM guns for what your customers perceive to be their best and most reliable value as they continue doing business with you.

Last time I checked tho, an OEM top end for a Husky 55 Rancher was still north of $300. That's simply insane -- regardless of your religion or drug use/medication.

On a more positive and less contentious note, I've really been enjoying the Y-Tube stuff and learning a few things in the process. Good stuff and done in a way that sorta brings the viewer into the experience.....and indeed demonstrates some interesting aspects of he Huztl stuff....mostly favorable, IMHO.

Nothing personal here, Spike...., generally speaking. Cheers, buddy.



And not to belabor the issue further, but my hat is off to guys like DDave who've hooked their wagon to Huztl and are dead nuts honest about what it is they're offering with no smoke and mirrors.....and will stand behind what they sell, and make good on parts that are less than expected when such occurs. The integrity and reliability of these guys to the AM market is just as important to their customers as the integrity and reliability of the OEM dealers to their client base. To suggest otherwise simply misses the whole point of the customer's perception of the value factor determining their choice of products and services. As far as they're concerned, "what happens over there, stays over there", whether it's China, Taiwan, Sweden, or Germany.

The bottom line is customer satisfaction...., .and the customer is always right...., even if we know better, right?

OK. I'll go now.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

My speculation is it will run until your sick of it and buy another saw...

I already have other saws, right now I have about 20 others to choose from. I don't use any of them enough to get tired of them. I have had some big, heavy saws that I moved on. At my age I'm gonna stick to the 346 size saws.

 

[Onan18]

I think that there is a time and place for aftermarket parts, fuel filters come to mind. The only Husqvarna style fuel filter I stock is the Rotary 9227, exactly identical to the Husqvarna part (except for the price) in every way and probably made by the same people. And yes, as a rule an OEM top end on a 55 Husqvarna or a Stihl MS290 is not cost effective. But if a ~$100.00 aftermarket top end turns it into a useful firewood saw for a few years then so be it, with full disclosure up front. Now for a professional user on a $1,000.00 PRO saw, absolutely not.

Joe

 

[weimedog]

I already have other saws, right now I have about 20 others to choose from. I don't use any of them enough to get tired of them. I have had some big, heavy saws that I moved on. At my age I'm gonna stick to the 346 size saws.

Something I can certainly relate too! But I'm curious about things like the MS250 experience... Like you, I have a lot of saws to choose from. Right now my two top choices are " saw on the tractor " Cyclops & fugly 350's because I had fun building them and like running them.. and the 350 doesn't give me a back ache. Love my MS660's and Big Jonsereds but unfortunately the old back can get them started.. and the work day is then over...

(Although the 56mm MS660 is worth the pain!)