hydro vs. kinetic cost/speed comparison

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thor97

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I'm wondering, with all the talk about kinetic speed vs. hydro cheapness, is there a hydraulic splitter that's even capable of a 3 second cycle time? And if so, can it be bought for $3500? I have both and they both have their place. The hydro gets used about 1% of the time for the really big stuff, and then I just crack it in quarters and finish with the supersplit.

Tried to talk my brother into a supersplit, but he found a woodmaxx, which is a kinetic, for about half the price delivered. I don't know anything about them, but the price is right and he doesn't do much firewood, so it'll probably work fine. So, you hydro guys, anything in your arsenal?
 
Is there anyone on here capable of keeping up with a 3 second cycle time?

Not this guy. Mine is a typical 14 second (or whatever) hydro unit and that time suits me just fine.

Might be different if you had a work crew to go with it, maybe...
 
Is there anyone on here capable of keeping up with a 3 second cycle time?

Not this guy. Mine is a typical 14 second (or whatever) hydro unit and that time suits me just fine.

Might be different if you had a work crew to go with it, maybe...

Same here. at 82 I'm in no rush :)
 
Depends what you are splitting. I have an owb and cut rounds at 32" long, kinetic no can do. I built my own splitter with a 4 way, it's slow but not a deal breaker for me. I would like to speed it up but that would be $2000 and not worth it to me. I also use it for splitting 16" long rounds and double them up so it's fast enough then too. I would like to count the fingers on the guy that runs a 3 second hydraulic splitter. PS, I like splitting wood so speeding it up means the fun is over quicker.
 
My hydro has a 10 sec or what ever cycle time, but that's pushing the wood through a 4-way wedge...

That makes up for less speed and is MORE than fast enough for me, plus EVERYTHING easily goes through the 4-way, I really like that...

SR
 
3 sec is doable.

My processor has a 30gpm pump, 4.5" cylinder, 3 in rod, 24" stroke. It's about 4.5 sec cycle. Probably 35 gpm area would do it.

I don't think I'd want a "manual" splitter that fast. It'd be a finger remover before you even realized it.

My setup has no hands in that area and for me time is money. One thing to do 4-5, 10 cords a year on a "slow" splitter vs 400-500.
 
I've posted a lot, so most of you know I have both. I like the height splitting smaller rounds, 16" or less, with the SS. Bigger, taller, rounds a lower beam works. I'm like the others posting, lots of other factor besides speed.
Even with the TW-6, the speed is not so much splitting as it is retracting. 3 1/2" rod in cylinder and dump valve. Huge rod, but tonnage is low, at 28 ton. It is not slow, nor is it terribly fast. Not sure what the numbers are for cycle time, but as Sawyer Rob says, it splits what you put on it, seldom having to take the four-way off. Tonnage numbers are misleading. A lot depends on wedge design.
 
There's really no need to compare the two, unless for entertainment purposes. They are too different animals.
One works best for some, the other best for others...

In 40 years of cutting firewood The Super Split is by far the best thing I've ever had for processing!
 
I just acquired a few parts for building another hyd splitter. Wasnt looking for anyparts and only had a ideal for a different design. I sold my old hydroseeder to a guy out of tenn. He had a bunch of hyd parts so I told him to load them on his truck and we would do some trading. Anyways, I scored a hyd crane winch, a f11 bent axis motor, brand new, several cyl and hyd motors and what have you. Anyways, Except for a engine, I have about everything I need to build my ideal. I still have my processor to complete, but I can start the planning.. If my ideal works, you can go ahead and junk your kinetic and your average hyd splitter and send me all your money, because you will just have to have one. I say this in jest, but I do think I have a neat ideal.
 
I've posted a lot, so most of you know I have both. I like the height splitting smaller rounds, 16" or less, with the SS. Bigger, taller, rounds a lower beam works. I'm like the others posting, lots of other factor besides speed.
Even with the TW-6, the speed is not so much splitting as it is retracting. 3 1/2" rod in cylinder and dump valve. Huge rod, but tonnage is low, at 28 ton. It is not slow, nor is it terribly fast. Not sure what the numbers are for cycle time, but as Sawyer Rob says, it splits what you put on it, seldom having to take the four-way off. Tonnage numbers are misleading. A lot depends on wedge design.

My processor is about 20 tons. It's very rare I can't split something through a 6 way and I have to sledgehammer it out.... like maybe 15-20 pieces a year rare (out of several hundred thousand).
 
My processor is about 20 tons. It's very rare I can't split something through a 6 way and I have to sledgehammer it out.... like maybe 15-20 pieces a year rare (out of several hundred thousand).


Not much oak or elm up that way, though. And being a processor, you're not putting crotchy pieces through.
 
I sometimes wonder if we should be looking for faster splitting, or less labor while splitting. I have watched lots of different splitter videos, not that much difference to any of them when you look at the labor aspect. You get a big round and someway you have to get it on the splitter, whichever type of splitter you own. With a kinectic splitter, once that big round is split in half, you still have two big heavy pieces to handle and reposition on the splitter, One half to move out of the way and the other half you will have to rotate as its being processed into little pieces, then drag the other half back onto the splitter and start rotating and splitting into firewood. With a hydraulic splitter and multi wedges, at least you can make several smaller pieces out of that big round in one pass, even if all those pieces are still to big for the stove. Your still going to be doing resplits and a hydraulic splitter is slow when compared to the kinetic. The difference is in the number of times you have to rotate those big pieces to get the split. I dont care what kind of splitter you own, a 20+inch round or even half a round is heavy and hard to handle.

Now lets just supposed you could use some sort of lift to put that large heavy round on the splitter beam, without all that rolling and scooting around to get on a log lift or roll into a fel bucket. And once that big round was on the splitter, you could hit a lever and the round would be processed into firewood size pieces with out the operator having to touch the round again. No more lifting, turning, dragging half rounds to reposition for the next split. Would you give up a little speed to do away with a lot of labor. What if the machine was fast enough to to process the same size round as the kinetic in the same amount of time without all the heavy lifting and rotating. I think most here would jump on board and want one. If you can reduce labor you can reduce cost, especially if your into commercial firewood sales and you are paying for help.

For a commercial firewood producer selling lots of wood each year, I think a processor is going to be very hard to beat, but you still have to have the processor and someway to handle the logs. Lots of money for equipment for little payback. Like buying watermellons for a dollar and selling them for a dollar and trying to make it up with volume
 
Mudd, that's one of the reasons why I made my 36" splitter with the 4 way wedge. Saves lots of handling of heavy pieces to resplit. I still have to do it but the size is a lot smaller and not near as often so the slower speed was fine for me. I just split wood for most of 2 days and that will easily be enough wood for the winter for me so even if I cut my cycle time in half it still wouldn't save me much more than 8 or 10 hours a year. Just not cost effective for me. I do plan on making a rounds table\trailer\log deck that will cut my manual handling and lifting way down. A firewood business would have different priorities for sure.
 
cantoo, I know I am kind of rambling with thoughts going nowhere, but I have been thinking of trying to go a different direction than the norm. My ideal isnt an original one, and not sure where i saw this or who came up with the ideal. When I saw the design, I thought it was a good ideal that needed just a little more refinement. The original splitter I am referring to is a hyd machine, just like any other hyd splitter, except with a twist. The wedge design was made in a "T" shape with two or three extra wedges under the top crosswedge. No upward wedges so the cross wedge acted as a table for the top half of a split round. The pusher plate was also designed with a sort of cradle that would pull the top split back onto the splitting beam upon retraction of the cyl. I believe the machine was equipped with a auto cycle valve. With this design, the operator simply loaded a large round onto the splitting cradle and activated the lever and and the splitter did its thing makeing little splits out of big ones, with out having to constantly drag half a round back and reposition for another split. The operator just cut his manual labor with out scraficeing speed or production.

I think I can take this simple design and make it a lot more complicated, for better or worse. I think it would increase cost considerably, but would also speed up production an equal amount. The first modification I would want to make would be to speed up the cycle time. I know I can increase a hyd cyl speed by simply increaseing hyd flow. Everyone is always pointing out the possibility of wacking off fingers and hands with speeding things up, whether it is hyd or kinectic. With the design of the automatic log pull back and cradel, there is no need to put one's hands anywhere near the wedge. Increaseing cyl speed could have unintended side effects. Making the cyl too fast could have splits and splinters flying around like automatic rifle fire.

The autocycle valve could be replaced with a electric solenoid valve and made fully automatic, which would let the operator simply load the round into the cradle, hit a button and simply walk away to prepare the next round to be loaded on the splitter. No standing around with a hand on a lever. Devise a way to load the rounds mechaniclly and except for bucking rounds, a ton of labor could be eliminated. Get rid of the labor and a person can keep splitting all day long instead of working like a mad man for a few hours and stopping to take breaks every few minutes. That in itself would increase production.

Anyways, its an ideal and something I want to attempt when I get around to it. I procured a lot of good parts in my recent trading and could just about do the build with minimal additional cost. Only thing is, such a build would interfere with my fishing, I dont need such a splitter, and I already have one big project setting in the shop getting rusty.

With my tradeing, I also acquired a high speed bent axis motor, good for 8000rpms, that would make a very good processor saw motor. I have already built my hyd chainsaw and have a spare motor to fit it, so I dont need this one. Specs on motor are, 8000 rpm max, 50rpm min, .63cuin, 21.8 gpm and up to 5800psi. Its a rexroth a2fm10, bent axis. Compareable to the Parker F11-10 which is a .60 cuin motor. Here is a spec sheet, https://dc-us.resource.bosch.com/me...ps_1/mobile_hydraulics_4/pdfs_6/ra-a91001.pdf. The motor is brand new, I unwrapped it from its plastic wrap. If some one is interested in it send me a PM, I'll let it go for a fraction of its new price.
 
I sometimes wonder if we should be looking for faster splitting, or less labor while splitting. I have watched lots of different splitter videos, not that much difference to any of them when you look at the labor aspect. You get a big round and someway you have to get it on the splitter, whichever type of splitter you own. With a kinectic splitter, once that big round is split in half, you still have two big heavy pieces to handle and reposition on the splitter, One half to move out of the way and the other half you will have to rotate as its being processed into little pieces, then drag the other half back onto the splitter and start rotating and splitting into firewood. With a hydraulic splitter and multi wedges, at least you can make several smaller pieces out of that big round in one pass, even if all those pieces are still to big for the stove. Your still going to be doing resplits and a hydraulic splitter is slow when compared to the kinetic. The difference is in the number of times you have to rotate those big pieces to get the split. I dont care what kind of splitter you own, a 20+inch round or even half a round is heavy and hard to handle.

Now lets just supposed you could use some sort of lift to put that large heavy round on the splitter beam, without all that rolling and scooting around to get on a log lift or roll into a fel bucket. And once that big round was on the splitter, you could hit a lever and the round would be processed into firewood size pieces with out the operator having to touch the round again. No more lifting, turning, dragging half rounds to reposition for the next split. Would you give up a little speed to do away with a lot of labor. What if the machine was fast enough to to process the same size round as the kinetic in the same amount of time without all the heavy lifting and rotating. I think most here would jump on board and want one. If you can reduce labor you can reduce cost, especially if your into commercial firewood sales and you are paying for help.

For a commercial firewood producer selling lots of wood each year, I think a processor is going to be very hard to beat, but you still have to have the processor and someway to handle the logs. Lots of money for equipment for little payback. Like buying watermellons for a dollar and selling them for a dollar and trying to make it up with volume


How do you figure little payback?

To cover a 100k in processor and skid steer I'd have to sell 800 cords... about 2 years worth of wood. Not bad if you ask me. A processor can last 20+ years.

If I remember correctly you are in an area that doesn't get very cold, so perhaps firewood isn't a need? I sell about 500 cords a year and could do closer to 800. Hoping with adding 2 trucks that I'll be there (lot of it now is people going elsewhere because of the wait time)
 
Depends what you are splitting. I have an owb and cut rounds at 32" long, kinetic no can do. I built my own splitter with a 4 way, it's slow but not a deal breaker for me. I would like to speed it up but that would be $2000 and not worth it to me. I also use it for splitting 16" long rounds and double them up so it's fast enough then too. I would like to count the fingers on the guy that runs a 3 second hydraulic splitter. PS, I like splitting wood so speeding it up means the fun is over quicker.

Yea my hyd is set up for 24" long and I split rounds up to 30" with ease. I bought a load from a firewood processing guy that was large rounds he cut off trunks before he chops them and nasty pieces his processor spit out or he tossed aside. For him time is money and some wood isn't worth his time. I don't mind the time and it is fun splitting some big nasty oak . Only one piece last year I got stuck on and I had to sledge it for 5 min until it came off

3 sec is doable.

My processor has a 30gpm pump, 4.5" cylinder, 3 in rod, 24" stroke. It's about 4.5 sec cycle. Probably 35 gpm area would do it.

I don't think I'd want a "manual" splitter that fast. It'd be a finger remover before you even realized it.

My setup has no hands in that area and for me time is money. One thing to do 4-5, 10 cords a year on a "slow" splitter vs 400-500.

My home made splitter has a 22 gpm pump with a 5" cylinder and a 13 hp motor. And as you say I don't mind it slow because I split 10+ cord a year for my OWB. O too would be afraid of losing a finger with a fast splitter.
 
How do you figure little payback?

To cover a 100k in processor and skid steer I'd have to sell 800 cords... about 2 years worth of wood. Not bad if you ask me. A processor can last 20+ years.

If I remember correctly you are in an area that doesn't get very cold, so perhaps firewood isn't a need? I sell about 500 cords a year and could do closer to 800. Hoping with adding 2 trucks that I'll be there (lot of it now is people going elsewhere because of the wait time)
Your situation is exactly what I was referreing to, commercial wood sales, selling large volumes. For someone selling just a few cords a year, a processor and skid steer cost so much, you cant make back the return on investment. Selling 400 or 800 cords a year, your not going to split by hand, and the investment in equipment can be justified. I burn maybe 4 cords a year, buying even a $3500 hyd splitter doesnt make financial sense when a $1000 HomeDepot splitter will do the same work, albeit maybe a little slower. My market is such that I could sell more firewood than I could produce with my current setup. The Question is, do I want to start selling firewood. If I do decide to sell firewood, would I be doing it with the goal of making as much money as possible, or am I just looking to pick up a little extra pocket change. My goals would determine what kind of splitter I would purchase, and how much I would be willing to pay for the machine. I can sale wood and pick up pocket change with what I already own. If I started buying more equipment, I would have to buy based on a estimated volumes of sales and my cost to produce. If my cost to produce is equal to, or greater than, total gained sales volume, then whats the point?
 
I was watching a video of an outfit in Austraila. They ran 2 of the biggest Multiteks, something like 75-100 cords a day!
 
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