I have a problem PLZ HELP

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I do have some contract background and write about 10 estimates, 5 or 6 proposals, and 2 or 3 contracts a day.

1. They are all diffrent an estimate is just that an estimate and is no way the finial price of a job, most estimates are written on a time and materials rates with an estimate in the amount of time it will take. This happens a lot with car repairs I estimate it will be $300 and it is $400 when you go to pick your car up because it took longer then they expected or they had to do more work then they expected. They have to get your approval for the extra fees by law in many states but in most cases if you do not approve the repair you still get charged the $300 plus the car still does not run.
2. A proposal is the next step up it says you agree to do a certian job for a set price, may also include a time and materials rates for extra work, example I agree to remove 5 trees for $5000 now no matter what happen you can only charge $5000, however if you need to remove 3 small trees to get to the 5 bigger trees, or if the owner wants the stumps ground, or anything else now you can charge extra money on a time and materials rates.
3. Both an estimate and a proposal are NOT contracts, they can be turned into contracts if both parties sign the estimate or proposal stating that you both agree to the terms of the estimate or proposal. A contract can be a stand alone document which now takes the pricing from an estimate or proposal and list them and all the terms and conditions. This is your best bet in most legal cases you first send a proposal for the work plain and simple do X work for $X, you can mail it to them ro fax it, if they agree tell them that a day or two before the works starts you'll stop by with a contract this is where all your terms and conditions are (i.e. you are no responsible for destroying their garden, their lawn, ect.; whatever your payment terms are and any late fees, what exactly is included in that price and if any basic things are not spell them out (hauling logs, stump removal, mulch and chipping disposal, removal of extra trees, grind stump to 5 inches not 8 inches, ect) your work hours and schedual (ie we do not work on sunday or we will be here at 8 am on saturday, we don't work in the rain, etc.)


So long story short, an estimate is not a contract until you turn it into one, which does not seem to be the case here, unless both parties sign the document it is not a contract. I sign every single proposal or estimate I send to someone it is not a contract until they sign it and return it to me. Also you are not bound by an estimate or a proposal until it is a contract, you can say sorry not interested in the job anymore, not the best business practice but it is legal.

You should include expiration dates on your proposals or estimates, even though they are not legally binding contracts it is just good business to tell someone how long they have to agree to the price and start the work (this is important too) you will get people who will sign a contract within you time period but will hold up starting the work, it has happened to me I agreed to a job then waited close to a year to start the job, because we had a signed contract and it did not limit the time frame to start work I got stuck doing a job at last years rates. My contracts now state that the work must start within 45 days on the signing of the contract of the pricing will be adjust for new costs.
 
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I would NOT do this job. There will be more problems down the line, he will be unhappy with something that you do and will be a bigger headache.

Check with a lawyer about your state laws, an estimate should be just that an ESTIMATE of what the job may cost. A BID would be a price that cannot change. I can't imagine that you are going to be required by law to work for this guy.

BTW; I wonder if this lady from the state was some bull:censored: that this guy used to intimidate you.
 
Most companies

Most have a policy of 30 day quotes. Stick with that dude. Have it in your bylaws man and ignore him or get the 1800 from him as the quote is over 30days old...
 
Don't leave us hanging, what happened, what did you decide to do? Most of the answers you got were correct. I could see you going either way and feeling good about it. These are the kinds of issues that start wars. Just kidding but seriously a debatable subject, let us know.
 
Since I was new in tree service business I decided to go and do the job for the guy because I didn't want to be sued even tho we never signed any contract and estimate was old. The good part is that I didn't do whole job for 800-900 which was worth a lot more. I just went and trimmed bunch of trees but didn't remove all dead branches since there was no leaves so the guy couldn't really tell if I did everything Ok. He treaded me bad and he got what he asked for:hmm3grin2orange:
 
I have 30 days on mine,but also says i have the discrection to withdraw at any time for no reason.Basically you have the right to refuse service to anyone.:buttkick:
 
Since I was new in tree service business I decided to go and do the job for the guy because I didn't want to be sued even tho we never signed any contract and estimate was old. The good part is that I didn't do whole job for 800-900 which was worth a lot more. I just went and trimmed bunch of trees but didn't remove all dead branches since there was no leaves so the guy couldn't really tell if I did everything Ok. He treaded me bad and he got what he asked for:hmm3grin2orange:

Now THAT is actionable. You turned a no fault no damage situation into one he actually CAN go after you for. :bang:
Not to mention that you admitted doing it on a public ISP!
:bang:
 
sounds like you'll end up doing the job and ot get paid anyways, do NOT do the work..tell the guy to call another company. it was only a estimate. signed by you. witch means you will honer your price if agreed apon by both parties. then put in contract form with a start and completion date. so basically tell the dude to go cut it down his self lol
 
I was just tired of that guy and I just did the job. He said he was happy at the time job was done so what do you mean he can go after me now? By the time leaves start growing on trees will take few more months and I don't think he can go after me anymore?
 
Ok we all have to live and learn . I was hoping you either did the job or didnt do it. I hope you have done enough work for it to be fare. I learned a long time ago that in order for me to be able to sleep i have to do the right thing (at least in my mind) and not rationalize it to make it the right thing. That make sence? Anyway you gota be honest above everything else. I hope the guy is happy and you learned a lesson. Dont be insulted , we all have learned some lessons the hard way.
 
Under Quoting: Some Thoughts

Mijic,

Firstly, I'm not a lawyer and this is not qualified opinion. I have to say that as my work in insurance provides a familiarity to legal principles, however these thoughts are not to be construed as 'legal advice'.

As personal and general conversation only, I agree with the points of many here. You provided an 'estimate' that was not accepted in the limited timeframe of your 'offer'. As an 'estimate', it was also not a bid but a suggestion as to a ball-park cost. If this guy wanted a 'guarantee', he should have asked for a 'bid' and required this to be supported with a 'bid bond' (usually to be followed with a performance bond).

The point of this man harrassing you with repeated phone calls after you have asked him to cease is also a reasonable concern. A civil society does not permit threats (being sued) and related stresses to be inflicted upon one another. Informing the police will either get him to take the action he threatens (and you would then find out if you were indeed legally wrong and should own up to any 'obligation' if there is found to be) or it will get rid of him once and for all. Why allow this person to have power (control over your frustration, etc.)? Get the police involved and you likely will never hear from him again.

Of course, there is also the concern if he 'knows where to find you' (i.e. vandalism of your vehicles of equipment). He sounds like an ass. It's too bad things have gone this far. Sometimes it might have been better to have just done the work and absorbed your losses before he got hot under the collar. Lesson learned is to avoid making enemies, however now that you have one, get rid of him. You surely don't need this in your life.

Best Wishes!

Scott
 
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hey bro,just been reading your dilemma,we have all been where you have been,i have had it in nz uk aus,strange people everywhere,the problem i have is that you had 2 options,do it or dont!you opted to do it that was your call he reallisticaly couldnt have made you complete the work,however because you chose to complete the work and by your admission in a sub-standard fashion you may have opened a can of worms!!i personnaly would not have worked for him but would have fobbed him off,yet if i chose to undertake the job although it may hurt i would have gone the opposite and given him no reason to ????? about the standard of work done and taken a photo as evidence,this guy could really do your rep some harm if he is the sort we all think he is.in future take more time on the quote,build a raport with the client that way you can gage what he is like,love the one your with.when ever i get a bad feeling about a client and go against my better judgement it always bites me in the a**
all the best
 
CAP Always Applies

My proposals have 30 day expiration date stated in black and white on the document. You signed the estimate, he did not, therefore non-binding. You do not have to do the job, for any rate. Some people like jerking others around. You should have told him sorry, you do not have a legally binding contract and if you continue harassing me I will be forced to contact the authorities. Did HE sign your estimate before you did the work? Do you have a copy of the completed (both signatures present) estimate? If not, by doing the job you have put yourself into a bent-over position. If something had happened during the course of the job (accident or injury) would your insurance company have covered you without a binding contract? Hopefully, you'll never hear from this jackass ever again! ALWAYS "CAP"! (cover the anal passage) Even when your gut tells you this person is OK, you never know for sure. If you need to, contact a lawyer and pay him for an hour of his time to help you come up with a document that will provide the above referenced CAP. It will help you sleep better and be worth the expense. Good luck and work safe!

Beaver
 
WOW.

i cant believe how cold some of you are to a new guy in the business.

havent any of you UNDER BID a job before? i do it once in a while. i cant name a single tree business owner thats successful who wont deny underbidding some here and there. theres so many factors and not one job is the same as the next. if you DONT underbid from time to time, youll find yourself NOT getting work, cause theres someone out there whos going to bid lower than you and get the job. i do free estimates for my customers, but i dont LIKE doing free estimates- i want the work.

youre saying hes giving a bad name to everyone etc. this "customer" of his has been harrassing him and playing mind games ETC. how can he sue the tree guy? estimate signed or not, there is no contract or deadline signed. IMO the customer is the bad guy here.

i would have never worked for that guy. odds are, this guy could do the greatest job in the world for the customer and still get bad referrals from the customer. if the customer even has friends to spout off to...

its just one job, you cant win them all. keep your spirit up new guy- i can usually weed out the bad customers during the estimates and tell who ill enjoy working for, and who ill walk from or give a high bid to. and im doing pretty dang good in my business at my young age.

ever see those signs in businesses that say "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" ??
 
yeah

Like every time is under bid but they wont pay what its worth here
800.00 is a large difficult take down and clean up here that includes stump!
I have done work for peanuts but bottom line my customers are happy and I have work! Reputation is all we have in this biz and I take it seriously.
Having said that the bbb is a good source of finding out what your clients
think of you and I so far have a spotless record and am a member. They
can also help in threats and some of what you experienced ! Sorry for
your trouble and did seem weird that he did not just get someone else
but if you made him happy at least he may not mouth you!!!!!
 
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